S2E19: Bonus- Spirit Possession- Part 2

Common Mystics Podcast Season 2 Episode 19: Bonus- Spirit Possession- Part 2 www.commonmystics.net 00:00:09 In this bonus episode of Common Mystics, we conclude our discussion about spiritual possession. I'm Jennifer James. I'm Jill Stanley. We're psychics. We're sisters. We are Common Mystics, and today we bring you the second half of our two part series looking at two real cases of possession that inspired the 1973 film, “The Exorcist.” 00:00:35 I almost wanted to be like, we're scared shitless, but I decided not to. That's fair. I really am scared. I know. I'm scared, too, but we'll get into it. These two cases were said to have inspired William Blatty's “The Exorcist,” right? That's right. That's my understanding. Yes. So there's two of them that we found. Although there are a lot of cases out there that do claim to be inspiration for “The Exorcist.” 00:00:59 Like everyone. Exactly. Yeah. But these two feel legit. They feel very close to the narrative and the experiences that were described in the book and the movie. I agree. So Emma Schmidt is our first case. Lesser known. She, um, was from the 1920s is when her case was really documented. And then the second is “Robbie,” we're calling him. It's not his real name because the man had a family and descendants, and it's just not necessary to give his real identity. I don't think Emma's real name is actually Emma anyway. So why call out the real guy? So these are the two cases we're going to be looking at, and I'm really excited to share them with you folks today. How about you? 00:01:44 You want to start talking about Emma? No. You tell me about her. I like when you do it. Okay. Emma, we think, was born around 1882 and she lived in Marathon, Wisconsin, which is in central Wisconsin. Apparently around the age of 14, she began to manifest demonic, possession-like symptoms. Hmm. 00:02:12 So although when she was 14, she started manifesting those symptoms, she didn't seek help until 1912, and she was about in her thirties. And at that time she approached or had got in contact with a Father from the church. What's his name? Father Theophilus Riesinger. Can we just call him Father Theo? That's fine. I feel like I know him. He was a Capuchin friar and Catholic priest who was serving a parish in Appleton, Wisconsin. So he was right in the area. He was kind of a superhero when it came to exorcisms though. Yeah, no, this was his first one. And Emma's case shot him into the, um, into the area as being like a well-known, um, demonologist and an Exorcist for the Catholic Church. 00:03:04 Yeah. And so in 1912, Emma, we believe, was about 30 years old. He performs his first exorcism on her and it appeared to be a success. Yeah. He patted himself on the back. He sure did. Shook her hand. Went off, found more folks to exorcize, to expel them demons. 00:03:24 But that wasn't the end of Emma’s story. That doesn't sound good. Fast forward to 1928. And now Emma is in her forties. And once again, she's experiencing her symptoms In the outline, I wrote “the demon invaders would resurface again many years later.” And I just liked the sound of that. I was very proud of that, but please continue on. 00:03:50 Let's talk about her condition here. Okay. Tell me. So, what was happening to her was that, although she had always been a very pious and respectable person, and even though throughout most of her youth, she was, she was religious and she experienced the sacraments of the Catholic Church, she was a church goer, suddenly when she wanted to pray, she couldn't pray. When she wanted to go to church, she couldn't go to church. Like there was a force compelling her not to. She couldn't receive Holy Communion anymore. 00:04:31 Oh Jesus. Can you imagine? Ooh. Moreover, there were sinister inner voices that would suggest unmentionable things to her. Yeah. And she was compelled to do things like shatter the Holy water font or attack her spiritual advisor, like she wanted to suffocate him. 00:05:02 Oh my God. These powerful malevolent feelings in her were making her think that she was going insane. Well, okay. That's all scary, but was it at all possible that bitch was just crazy? I think at this point, yes. I would say yes. No offense. It is 100% possible, in my mind, knowing this much, that yeah. She's going insane. 00:05:28 Because think about it, what if, I mean, it would make sense to me if she's actually getting angry and targeting religious symbols and her spiritual advisor, it feels like a real, almost like, 180 from her very pious upbringing, right? So that seems like it could be like a manifestation of some kind of mental illness. Sure could. Yeah. Absolutely. 00:05:48 Yeah. Well, she did go to the doctor. Oh. And she looked, she actually went to many different doctors and they looked into her symptoms and her condition and she went to the best specialists in the profession. Now it doesn't say here, I'm not sure if she saw psychiatrists or like general practitioners, but my sense is that she saw a lot of different doctors and they all unanimously said she was completely normal. At least physically, she was normal. There was no indication of any sort of physical illness and they could not help her. 00:06:23 Okay. So, okay. So what would be done with Emma? Who's violent, who's acting out as it seems, what would be done with her? 00:06:33 Well, she already had the one exorcism in 1912 that you know, was kind of successful, I guess, but not entirely because [here we are again] here we are again, and it's getting worse. So now it's 1928 and she goes back to Father Theo who is now really popular as the exorcist in the area. Right? Sure. So she goes to him and he, his initial thought is, well, we can do an exorcism, but I don't want to do it here, where we live, like not in this hometown. We want to respect her privacy, her anonymity. And it's such a small area. 00:07:12 Right. Everybody knows everybody. We don't want everyone talking about your business. So he has a friend, Reverend Joseph Steiger. We're going to call him Reverend Joe or Father Joe. 00:07:23 You know, it's weird. I'm just gonna stop you cause I just had this thought. Isn't it weird that in 1928, he left Appleton in Marathon, Wisconsin to have the second exorcism? 00:07:34 When he didn't leave town in 1912? Right. Isn't that interesting? Maybe now, because he's more famous, more renowned. Maybe people are watching a little more closely. Hmm. 00:07:46 Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Now, he is a famous exorcist. Okay. Anyway, so in 1928, he didn't want to do the second exorcism in their hometown. So he says he's going to find another place more suitable. So he calls his friend, Joseph Steiger, Reverend Father Joseph Steiger, who has a parish in Iowa. Earling, Iowa, I believe it is. You're right. And he calls and he says, hey, I have this woman. She happens to be possessed by demons. Oh man, can I use your place to expel them? 00:08:25 That's a hard no on that. And actually, Jill, how do you think that went? That conversation? I mean, it's a priest, right? So he can't straight up be like, yeah, you know, I'm going to pass. You know, he's supposed to help people. So it was probably awkward. He probably was asking a lot of questions like, hey, have you checked Illinois? Okay. Do you have any friends in, I don't know, Minnesota? 00:08:51 Right, right, right. I get the impression of that scene from Pulp Fiction in my head where John Travolta, his character, Vince has Uma Thurman's character in her car and she's OD’ing and he's driving her to Lance's house, the drug dealer. And he calls him. He's like, she's OD’ing on me, man. And Lance is like, well, don’t bring her here. 00:09:17 Prank caller. Prank caller, and hangs up. I get the feeling like that's the kind of interaction that took place here. I agree. In the end, Father Joseph agreed to host the exorcist in his parish, but in the nun's convent. 00:09:37 I love this because this is what happened. So Father Theo calls Reverend Joseph and he's like, Hey, can you do me a solid? I got the situation where I got to expel some demons from this girl, Emma. He's like, can I come by and do it by you? And then Reverend Joseph was like, Father Theo, you know, I'm fine with it, but you know Mother Superior at the convent? I don't know how she's gonna feel about the whole devil thing in her convent, you know? Maybe you should talk to her about it first, and then if she says she's good with it, then I'm fine. And then Father Theo was like, oh, how serendipitous of you. Mother Superior already said it was fine. So then like Father Reverend Joseph was probably quiet on the other line. 00:10:21 It sounds like he pulled a fast one. Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh. And this is a little town, Earling, Iowa, just saying. All right. So they arrived separately. So, Father Theo arrives, Emma arrives and they meet there in the convent. 00:10:38 This is my favorite thing that could ever happen. If anything is funny about the story, this is it. Jennifer, it's the evening before the planned exorcism and they're, they're getting Emma ready. They're preparing her for bed. They wanted to give her a little snacky. You know, it's going to be hard days ahead. And so what happens? 00:10:58 So one of the very well-meaning nuns blesses the food before she brings it out to Emma. And apparently Emma loses her shit, like she becomes enraged. She just knows. 00:11:15 Oh my God. That's legit how I would react to someone trying to pass off a veggie burger to me as like a regular burger. I would be like, get this crap outta my sight. 00:11:26 Yeah. I can see that happening. I think I've actually witnessed that, thinking back. Like what kinda crap is this? You insult me. Needless to say they brought her different food. that wasn't blessed, so she calmed down a little. 00:11:43 Yeah, she was okay with it. Apparently it was impossible, not just the blessed food, but any blessed object or consecrated article, if they brought it to her, she would have quote, unquote “intense sufferings.” And it would look like her, her body was glowing like coal in a fire. Oh my. Isn't that terrible? Geez. 00:12:07 This is ridiculous. Okay. So now they start the exorcism. They do. Tell me how it goes down. So before they even start, Jill, they need some muscle. This bothers me. This bothers me, too. And they suspect, now they know, he's done exorcisms. He knows the devil's not going to be like, oh, all right. Oh, I’ll relax. 00:12:34 Oh, since you asked nicely. No, that's not how this is going to go down. So they anticipate there's going to be a fight. It's going to be rough. It's going to be physically exhausting. So they ask Mother Superior to round up her strongest sisters. 00:12:53 Not spiritually strong. They mean some hefty-ass, thicker, Which, you're right, is not fair because as a big girl myself, I really resent the fact that people look at you and assume that you are physically able to do some shit that you don't want to do. And they don't know about my back. Right. Just because I'm hefty, doesn't mean I'm strong. I don't work out. Oh my God. Can you imagine that assignment? I'd be like, what do you want me to do? Lay on her? Or like, I don't like, honestly, what are your expectations of this, Father? Cause I don't want to be by her either, man. Looks like she's coughing up some shit. I don't know, man. I don't know. God. Why don't they get the townspeople to help? 00:13:54 They rounded up the quote unquote “strongest nuns.” Poor nuns. I know. Poor, big nuns. Okay. So they rounded up the strongest nuns and it was their job to assist in case anything might happen. Really? Really? Just in case anything might happen? Okay, and they were supposed to hold her down on the bed. 00:14:16 Did they do a good job? So, I'll tell you. I've never been to an exorcism, but I've seen some movies and there are prayers. There are, there are rites. There's some splashing of the holy water. You know, it's a big thing. Apparently the possessed Emma was unconscious on the bed. Her eyes were closed so tightly that no one could open them. But I mean, honestly if I close my eyes really tight, you couldn't open them either. You know what I mean? Like that's no big deal. 00:14:44 Were they really trying though? Like if the devil was possessing, like I wouldn't even try. I'd be like, no, she wants her eyes closed. Could we at least give her that? Like, you know what I mean? I wouldn't be like, no. Her eyes must be open. I don't know. Go on. Right. 00:14:56 Okay, and I'm just going to give you an aside here. Until I read this portion of the outline. I was like, this bitch is just crazy. She's just psychotic. She's had a mental break and she's acting out there's much ado about nothing. And then I read this. So Father Theo was just barely beginning the Rite of Exorcism. [and he was like, in the name of the Father] Right. Yeah. Yeah. He was naming the Blessed Trinity, the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, in the name of the crucified savior. Literally, if you are Catholic, that is the beginning, the very beginning of any prayers. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and then the prayer. 00:15:41 So he gets to that, that opening part, and all hell breaks loose, like literally. The possessed Emma, with lightning speed, dislodged herself from her bed and the hands of the hefty nuns holding her down, and her body flew across the room, above the door where she clung to the wall. 00:16:18 Fuck that noise. Clung to the wall, like an insect. That is not okay. Up until then. I was like, it's all in her head. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:16:38 I cannot imagine those poor, hefty nuns, like, you know what I mean? Like Father Theo like, knows what's going to happen. Right… But, like, those thick ass nuns, like what? So you’re right. Father Theo was the only one who kept his peace. Everybody else was struck with fear. No kidding. And so he's like, pull her down. And so the sisters, the poor, chubby sisters were forced to pull the possessed Emma, back off the wall, into bed and hold her down, and the exorcism resumed. 00:17:16 I can't even imagine. I am just shaking just thinking about it. I would run my hefty ass out the door. [With like an asthma inhaler.] I would not be staying. To have to touch her after that? No kidding. To have to pull her off the fricking wall? No, no, no. I'd be like, I would be like Father, it seems like she just wants to be on the wall. Father, I think she asked for you to help her. 00:17:48 You look like a strong, buff man. Come on, Father. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. I'm a believer now, Jill. I'm a believer. 00:18:03 Okay. Does it get better from there? No, it kinda gets worse. So then there's this loud shrill of a voice that fills the room. Now here's the thing, yes, anyone can scream, but the people in that room were convinced that it sounded like it was coming from far away. It was described as like Satan's howl. Like a pack of wild beasts, but it was coming out of the possessed Emma's mouth, obviously. As if she was hollow. 00:18:39 I don't like it. And everyone present was struck with terrible fear at that, but still Father Theo just yelled back and demanded that Satan be silenced. But the howling continued until everyone in the neighborhood, in the town, could hear it, and they came. And that's when the whole town was talking about this woman who was being exorcized in this convent. So much for anonymity and privacy. 00:19:09 Exactly, exactly. I mean, it was so loud that the whole town heard. I mean, that's saying something. Jennifer, this sounds like, atrocious. Like the scariest thing on earth. How long did these poor, hefty little sisters have to hold this beast down? 00:19:26 The exorcism would last for 23 days, over the course of three months. So they took breaks, but it kept going for three months. The total number of days was 23. And during that time, Emma, her body, became distorted. Her face became so distorted that people couldn't recognize her features. She was pale and death-like, and emaciated. Her eyes were protruding from their sockets. Her lips were swelled. Now this whole time, she's not eating a lot of solid food and they're basically feeding her, you know, liquids. 00:20:10 This is the worst. And yet she would vomit unmentionable and unbelievable amounts of solids. They said it looked like chewed up macaroni. Yeah. But she wasn't eating macaroni. She wasn't eating anything. The possessed would spit vomit and unmentionable excrement from her mouth. 00:20:34 Mm mm mm mm. Mm That's the poopy macaroni. That is the poopy macaroni. They also said that she would understand languages that she previously couldn't understand. When they asked how many spirits had possessed her, she responded that there were many and that Beelzebub- did I say that right? Beelzebub. It sounds cute. It sounds too cute to be a demon. Beelzebub. It’s a demon, Jill. He was the leader. Yeah. Stop saying his name. Oh, I know. I am so sorry. I did not mean that. I'm not interested. I didn't want to. Go on. 00:21:15 No kidding. Now you're coming on to demons. I just want to say you're flirting with demons. I know. I know. That's why I said it. I had to just cut them off. I had to just be like, you know what? I'm married. I'm a child of the Lord. I've been baptized. St. Michael is my friend. Don't come around here. 00:21:31 When they were talking about the spirits that were possessing Emma, one of the ones who had a shout out was her own father. 00:21:41 This is creepy AF, and we thought we had daddy issues. This is like, next friggin level. This is bad. This is like, really bad. The spirits claimed that Emma’s father had cursed. her, had cursed the spirits into her, and it was that reason that they had possessed her under the command of Satan. Apparently her father came forth, through her, during the right. As if he was a possessing spirit in her, as well. Exactly. 00:22:15 And it's then that it came out that he admitted trying to force his, his daughter to commit incest with him. And when she resisted him, he cursed her and wished her inhumanely that the devils would enter her and entice her to commit every possible sin against chastity and thereby ruin her body and soul. Jesus. That's so messed up. 00:22:44 That is just not okay, like so bad. That's some dark shit. Okay. Good news. You ready for some good news? Please. Yes. All right. So, the day before Christmas Eve, December 23rd, 1928, Emma stood upright, suddenly in her bed, and then she collapsed. Can you imagine every movement she makes? I would be like, oh! I know. No kidding. For real. 00:23:11 With a piercing screech, she bellowed the names of the demons who had been inside her, and then the sound slowly faded away. Then, there was a horrible unearthly stench that filled the room. It was then that she opened her eyes and shouted, “My Jesus' mercy. Praise be Jesus Christ.” And then Father Theo emerged from the possessed woman's room, looking about 20 years older. 00:23:40 Yeah, no shit. The devils had been recoiled back to hell. Oh, okay. So let's discuss, what do you think? Oh my God, I need a drink. This is intense, like crazy. I know. So does this sound similar to “The Exorcist?” What are your thoughts? Do you think that this could have been an inspiration? I actually found a newspaper article about this. 00:24:03 You know what? I do. I think there are some similarities. She was about 14 years old when the possession started, flying off the bed, a reaction to holy objects, distortion of the body, the famous vomit, the languages. I think there are a lot of elements that I could see Blatty using in his book that would be turned into the movie. Yeah. I mean, what do you think? 00:24:28 This is so much more scary to me, to be honest. Like so much more scary to me. Do you think she was really possessed? 00:24:36 I 100% know that she was possessed. Do you want me to tell you why? [See this is] Do you want me to tell you why? Tell me why. Not only did I read some shit that made me a believer, but as I was reading about Emma- 00:24:52 [Don’t do it, Jennifer. Don't do it. Jennifer. Don't do it, Jennifer.] There were some anomalies that were happening in my house. Okay. And I'm not going to say anything else because I don't want to give that energy. But yeah, we'll talk about it later. The shit’s real, Jill. The shit’s real, Jill. I have a question. I have a question for you because we talked last week about how does one come about being possessed and having your nasty ass fucking father want to have sex with you and then say no to that, and then he cursed you being possessed on you is not one of those things we discussed. 00:25:25 What is that? It wasn't on our list. No, but obviously she had some serious childhood trauma, right? Like, legit. This is more than adverse childhood situations. This is like an abusive father. And what we didn't mention before is that her mother died at a young age. So she was like, in just at the mercy of her father. So that could have led to some darkness around the house? 00:25:51 I mean, if he was that evil person, like you said, in the last episode, if he was this person, where that was his playground, then that would absolutely attract some badness. I could see it. Just saying, I don't know. I'm just believing, I believe a hundred percent that this poor woman was possessed [Oh, for sure] by I don't know, call them demons, call them Satan, call them malevolent. This woman was possessed. She had some nasty stuff in her. And I do believe that it came from her childhood and her experience with her father. I mean, that's just, that's just awful, awful, awful. I don't even want to go there in my mind. Let's change the subject. I’m scared. 00:26:35 Okay. Um, lastly, what is your impression of Father Theo? I like Father Theo. I cannot believe that he was so steadfast. He was calm. Oh my God. Can you imagine? 00:26:47 With the hefty nuns all flitting about? Oh my God. I cannot. I lose my shit if I’m like, at Starbucks for more than 15 minutes, like he is like, patient and calm. Yes, Yes. Yeah, I know. I like him a lot. That’s crazy. 00:27:04 I do like him a lot. I admire him. I think he's, uh, I think that in spirit, I'm going to say prayers for Father Theo, just to be like, Hey, shout out. He lived many years later. He lived many years later. He did. I found his obit. Did you see that? I did. I like that. That made me happy. All right. I wish I could say let's go to a better case. I know. 00:27:27 But you said this, this case is a little more well known? This case is a little more well-known and the child's name is actually out there. The thing is, is that he did recover from this incident, as did Emma. And he had a family and his relatives are still alive. So I'm still going to use his fake name. I will post a picture of him though, because if you're not part of his family, you're not gonna know that that's him. You know what I'm saying? It’s just a random picture. But what's interesting about this case is that he too was around 14 years old. 00:27:59 It was a little later, it was 1949. That's right. And he was living in a quaint and wholesome Maryland suburb, but his life would soon take a detour. So I've read conflicting accounts about this, but part of the legend I'll say is that he had just recently lost his aunt due to illness. Right, Jill? 00:28:22 So this is the thing I not only, um, like I found this guy's family, so his aunt actually was still alive when this, these, um, the infestation started, right? Okay. But his mom and his grandma were really religious, and for some reason it said that they didn't like her. There's accounts that like, she was a spiritualist or that, um, there was an incestuous relationship between her and Robbie. None of that- [What?] Yeah. like that's what they say, but none of that I could find. All I know is that his aunt died on January 26th and his experience started like, January 18th, and she lived in St. Louis and he lived in the Maryland area. So the accounts of how close they were, I mean, this is in the 1940s, like 1949. So, how often is he going to be seeing her and vice versa. So just keep that in mind and take it with a grain of salt. 00:29:24 Okay. I mean, this story at this point has become a legend, right? And there's a lot written about it, but part of the story goes that he was working through grief over his aunt's premature death, and he was using a spirit board to communicate with dead aunt, and by spirit board, I mean like, the Ouija board. And it was about that time when strange noises began to emanate from the walls of his home. And they would hear scratching noises from his bedroom. Not only he, but other members of the family would hear scratching coming from his freaking bedroom. 00:30:07 So, last week we talked about your friend. [Uh Huh, or the light bulb] And he was seeing the light bulb. [Yes] Well, similarly, when I was reading some accounts, this popped into my mind because Robbie was in his grandma's room with his grandma and they were hearing knocks. And the grandma goes, because this was after, this was like early February. The grandma's like, Hey, um, Harriet, (that's not her real name) Harriet, is that you? Is it you, Aunt Harriet? [No. No. No.] Oh yeah. And it did it again. And that's why they were like, no, Harriet's involved in this. And they actually like, when apparently when Catholic priests, um, involve themselves with exorcism, they have an exorcist diary. So in the exorcist diary of this account, it was like, grandma and mom are crazy. They're blaming Aunt Harriet who died after this thing already started happening. 00:31:02 That’s nuts, Jill. I know. There's more. Tell me. There would be water randomly dripping from the walls. And apparently Robbie would be jolted while sleeping in his bed because his mattress would move without explanation. Hmm. So Robbie's family sought help for him. And they went to doctors and they went to psychiatrists, 00:31:31 Good call. But no one was able to come up with any diagnosis or course of treatment. They basically explored every medical psychiatric avenue known at the time, and nothing could explain what was going on. 00:31:46 Can I tell you something else? What? So Robbie was in grade school at the time. And he was at his desk, like during homeroom or whatever, like math class, whatever. And his desk started rattling. [No] Like swear to God. This is the account. They’re picking up the desk and like, and it was going down. And so the teacher's like, Hey, Robbie, you want to stop? And he's like, I'm not doing it. And he had his hands in the air and the desk was still doing it. And they like, that was the last time of the school year that he was in school. They took him out of school. Either they took them out of school or the teacher was like, your son's disturbing my class. Either way, he didn't go back to school again that year. Interesting. 00:32:26 Okay. So like you said, February, 1949, Robbie is from an Evangelical Lutheran family. And so they seek out their families. Minister Luther Schultz. He was one of the first people to see the graphic manifestations from Robbie. And then he was like, yeah, this is a job for the Catholic Church. I can't help you. It kinda makes me proud to be Catholic. That’s right. So Jill, what was happening with Robbie? Tell us a little bit about some of his manifestations. Um, he was in a trance-like state. Words would appear on his skin. He would make guttural, like growling sounds. Objects would mysteriously fly in the boys' presence. And he would be subject to like, violent, violent seizures that didn't look like epilepsy or anything that could have been diagnosed at the time. Almost like he was throwing himself about, and he wasn't. 00:33:26 He was tested for physical illnesses and neurological disorders. That's right. So he was a mess. He was a mess. Again, I think it's interesting that he's like 14. Right? Cause a lot is going on when you're 14 years old, like I was a little shit when I was 14. So was I. I was acting out. No, you really didn't, Jen. 00:33:49 I think a lot of people act out at that age is my point. You have to call me out. Like I was in jail. I was thinking about Bartles and Jaymes wine coolers. I remember when you were in eighth grade and mom like, opening the bottle for you. So that doesn't even count. Don’t say that. 00:34:11 Then you make it sound like she’s a bad mom. Aww… uh, I'm just looking at her picture. Hi Mom. . Um, anyway, my point is, is like at first they were attributing his behavior as being like an awkward kid and being socially like, [adolescence] exactly. Which I would have thought, okay, fine. Maybe until we started reading about the exorcism itself. And then I was like, yeah, no, this is a little more serious than that. So please tell me a little bit about the exorcism. 00:34:40 Well, the Catholic Church investigated and gave the green light for the exorcism because you know, you just can't do that. You need permission. And they were like, yep, this is legit. You go for it. And it was a priest, Father Albert Hughes, who was to be the exorcist. Father Hughes began reciting the ritual. You know, we talked about the Father, you know, all the things he starts. And although Robbie was strapped down to his bed, he somehow managed to rip a metal spring from the bed and slash the priest with it, shoulder to wrist, and the wound would require over a hundred stitches. So that Father Hughes withdrew his position as a head exorcist. And no, he left. He did not want to have anything else to do with this kid. 00:35:40 He didn't leave the church. Like he, he still, there were still accounts of him like doing burials, but he did not touch Robbie. Like he was like, you know what, I bit off a little more than I could chew. My eyes were a little bigger than my belly. So, not cool 00:35:55 That's a rather extreme reaction. You don't come back and are a normal person after doing that to a priest. Like usually, that behavior is, you know, accelerated or they're still that kind of antisocial personality disorder behavior that you have going into adulthood. Cause the kid’s like 14, at the time. You don't just bounce back from that. Like no, something seriously wrong with him. Hold on to that thought. Well, he's, he sounds pretty fucked up right now, like by the devil. 00:36:24 He sure does. He sure does. So just days after Father Hughes withdraws from this entire situation and doesn't come back. Well, you know what? Good on him too, because a lot of Fathers would've hung in there and not admit defeat. Yeah. Yeah. Good on him. I agree. I agree. That takes a lot of courage to admit that you're in over your head. All right. So a few days after he leaves, they notice the word “Louis” on Robbie's body. It's red scratches, the word “Louis.” Coincidentally, the Catholic Archdiocese of Washington DC suggests that he be transferred to St. Louis where another Father, Father Bowden, would take over and began a new exorcism in that location. The weird thing about it is that St. Louis is where Robbie was born. It's where his parents met. And it's where his father's family was. And his aunt, um, his aunt that died was living in St. Louis. So, for the Diocese to be like, yeah, St. Louis is a good place. You'll find help there. It seemed like everything was coming together. 00:37:40 So this time though, Father Bowden, the head exorcist, had six other priests assisting him. So he did not have to depend on hefty nuns, just saying, 00:37:51 I know. So he came prepared. Theo. Father Theo, you can learn something here. Maybe they learn something in 20 years. Like hefty nuns scare too easily. Okay. So Robbie's transferred to St. Louis and there, his manifestations continue. They're scratching on his body. The mattress is moving violently. So the priest would walk in and they'd see him apparently lying still on the bed, but the bed would be violently shaking. And they're hearing howls. He's howling like a wounded animal. There's holy water that flies through the air and smashes against the wall. And an entire bookcase moves from alongside the bed and turns completely around facing the entrance of the room. 00:38:46 And that's not okay. That is not okay. Not okay. Um, also, according to sources, whenever the rights were read, like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, there were three dark bars that would just appear scratched across the boy's stomach. And the priest took this to believe it was a reaction to the Holy Trinity. Oh. So they were thinking like, okay, we're on the right track. 00:39:09 Like we're making a difference, like yeah. Man. I mean, bookcases are moving and there are three scratches on the body. I don't know. It seems like the devil's winning this one guys. Or maybe they're just focused on the wrong things. 00:39:24 I mean, whatever gets you through the day, The word “hell” just became imprinted on his chest. And there was a whole- there was something that they believe to be the image of Satan that appeared on his right leg. Like just a lot of physical [ like a wicked tattoo?] I don't know. Jeez. Oh my God. It was also reported that he displayed prodigious strength and violent outbreaks. It took three men to restrain him when he was having one of his fits. I wonder how many nuns three men equals. What's the exchange rate on that? 00:40:01 How many chubby nuns to three men? At one point, he broke the nose of one of the priests there. Yeah, Man. By March 20th, it's not going well. And he's becoming increasingly violent. You’d say, right? Like, um, guys. He's urinating on the bed and apparently it's causing severe burns on his body. There's horrendous smells filling the room. Well, see, to me, that's not a sign of possession. Like he's, he's peeing all over the room. Like, yeah. It's going to. Like when was the last time he had a shower? Exactly. Right. I mean, he's 14. Need we say more? Oh, Oh, ain't that the truth? 00:40:44 Adolescents stink, when you're not peeing on yourself. Right. He was then taken to Alexian Brothers Hospital in mid April. And that was when the final exorcism was conducted in the psychiatric wing of that hospital on April 18th, 1949. Apparently the priest forced rosaries and religious medallions all around him, on his neck and forced a crucifix into his hand. Around 10:45pm that evening, while five men held Robbie down, the boy suddenly became deathly still. And in a clear, booming voice, he shouted, “Satan, Satan. I am Saint Michael and I command you Satan, and the other evil spirits to leave the body in the name of God. Immediately. Now! Now!” And then seven minutes later, he woke up smiling, like nothing had happened. 00:41:35 Now, if he woke up smiling, I would still be suspicious as fuck. I would still be like sprinkling him with holy water, I'd be like, nope. Fool me once. 00:41:44 That’s right. Like, have you ever, have you never seen a horror movie? You don't stop. You don't stop when you think it's over. It's still there. It's coming back. 00:41:54 Just the smile. Why are you smiling? Do you like, you smell yourself for real, dude? Okay, thoughts? Parallels to “The Exorcist?” Any? Well, you've got the scratches on the skin, the moving furniture, moving objects, the voices, the growls. That's all in, in the movie and the book I imagine. I didn't read the book to be completely honest, but I mean, yeah. I can see how this would inspire a book to then inspire the movie. There's a lot, especially that dresser part. 00:42:26 What about the origins of possession? What are your thoughts on it? I feel like this is classic. Really? I have trouble with this one. I'm not sure anymore. Yes. Oh, a hundred percent. 00:42:35 Really? I'll tell you. Why are you sure that this is legit? Because this is a kid who is, um, an only child who has an overbearing mother and overbearing grandmother. Living in a house that's crazy like Lutheran Religious and he's, you know, cultivating chaos at first. I think he was just a naughty boy at first. He probably wasn't the best kid. Was he like, demonic naughty? No, but he wasn't the best kid. And then weird shit started happening around the house and they were giving it attention. It was classic infestation. 00:43:08 I don't know. When you told me about the desk thing, that sounds like a kid acting out. And then your points about an overbearingly strict household, that would just, I think, fuel a 14 year old to flip his shit even more. Do you know what I mean? Especially if he's in this devout Lutheran, overbearing, you know, kind of situation. I don't, I don't know. I think it’s legit. You do? I'll tell you something else, and we didn't talk about this before. So I apologize. One of the priests who were assisting, Father Bowdern, during this exorcism was Father Halloran. And Father Halloran was the one who got his nose broken and he was alive as late as 2000. And there was an interview from, or out of– did you listen to it? 00:44:02 I know exactly what you're talking about. FM News talk radio, out of Missouri. Yes. And if you go to the Wikipedia page, entitled “Exorcism of Roland Doe.” At the bottom, there is a link and you can listen to this man, Father Halloran, in the year 2000 talk about this experience, and he is so nonchalant. He did not believe that there was anything other than the boy acting out. The voices? He could tell that they were voices of the boy. They weren't demonic voices. That the scratching, he believed that the boy scratched himself. Now, did he mention the dresser moving? He did not, but here's what he did mention. He did mention that he was almost hit in the head by a vile of holy water that was sitting on a dresser that nobody was near and it flew at his head. Now, I don't know how I feel about that bit of information, because I think that there was something supernatural happening for sure. But I think it stems from Robbie himself, the boy. Maybe he had some telekinetic powers and was able to move things. But I don't know. I think it stemmed from him. I don't think he was possessed. 00:45:24 So, I would just say this. The gentlemen leading the Jesuit charge of exorcism in this, in Robbie's case. Bowdern. Father, Bowdern. Father Bowdern had taken him to his own dwelling where he was living at the time and observed him by himself overnight. And there was some really weird shit that he described and he wrote a letter to, um, gosh, the name of the university. I think it's Drake university in, is it North Carolina? I'm not sure. 00:45:58 There is a head, he wrote a letter to the head of the parapsychology unit of that university. And the letter is still on file in a book called,”When the Devil Came to St. Louis.” Also, I want to say this, just because we talk a lot about, like, evidence, but evidence itself is subjective, right? That’s true. That's why you have nine jurors on like, deciding on a court case. So what I think is like, oh, holy shit, like this is totally evident and totally makes sense to me. Someone else's like, this is not like, I agree with you. 00:46:31 A hundred percent. So it's not unusual to have people disagree, but there is something really weird going on. I agree. And I do think there's something supernatural going on a hundred percent. Objects don't just fly across the room in, you know, everyday life. That's not okay. That's not all right. I just questioned whether or not it was the boy himself. And I also think it's suspicious that all of a sudden it stops when they decide to take him to a psychiatric hospital, you know. Like no longer. We're not playing anymore. Now they're going to lock me up for life, I better stop this shit, you know. Snap out of it. 00:47:06 So, um, this kid ended up growing up and becoming a NASA scientist. No. Yeah, he did. And he retired in 2000, with accolades. You can read, if you really do the research on this person, you could read about his accolades in his life. That's crazy. It is so not consistent with somebody that would be doing the things that you're describing. I agree. You know what I mean? Like the intention. So, I don't know. I don't know. 00:47:37 Adolescence is a crazy time, Jill. I did some shit when I was in it. You're not the same person. I don't know. But at the foundation, I was always trying to like, be good with my ideas. I'm not sure about this one. Emma? I'm a hundred percent onboard. That was fricking demonic possession. I don't know. Jury's still out for me on this one, but I respect your opinion on it. We don't have to fight. 00:48:01 I'm gonna sit with it. I'm gonna sit with it for a minute. Jill, are we done with our season? We're done with our season. Oh my gosh, what are we going to do now? 00:48:12 Well, we're going to try to do bonus episodes at least once or twice a month to keep relevant until June, but we're still going to be traveling, and getting ready for season three. Oh, yes. We have stories lined up for season three because we didn't get to them all in this season. We have New York state, we have another story. We have Utah, we have to research, and then you and I are going to take a baby little mini trip in November. Hopefully, it all works out. We've got some travel on the calendar, for sure. 00:48:41 Yeah, and we might be, um, on a bonus episode of a different podcast in the near future, which I really hope happens because I'm going to die. RIP Jill because I'm really excited about it. 00:48:51 So, um, our listeners, Hey, we really appreciate our fans. We really, really do. It's incredible to think that we have fans, but thank you for listening. And while we're on this hiatus, do us a favor and tell three people you know about us. People who are like-minded that you think might enjoy this kind of podcast material. We would love to grow our audience even while we're on our off season. So thank you. We love you. 0:49:15 You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for listening and being so interactive with us and excited about the content we put out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 00:49:24 Jill, tell the people where they can find us. Well, check out our website, Commonmystics.net. Check in on our Twitter feed, Facebook and Instagram accounts at Common Mystics Pod. Also, you can listen in on wherever you're finding your favorite podcast. Check us out on Apple podcasts, where you can leave us a positive review so other people can find us. 00:49:45 Thank you. And good night. Thank you and good night. Bye.