Episode Transcript
Common Mystics Podcast
Season 2 Episode 16: Bonus- Season 2 Road Trip Recap
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00:00:09 On this episode of Common Mystics, we reflect on our first extended road trip as mystic podcasters, and what we've learned from the experience. I'm Jennifer James. I'm Jill Stanley. We're psychics. We're sisters. We are Common Mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places,and today we're looking back on season two. Jennifer? Jill? Let's address the spirit that has been following us in a really strong way since we left Illinois or began in Illinois, I should say. Our dad. Our father has been out of our lives since 1989. So, I was eight. I was 16. Jen was 16. When he left, yeah. And we haven't had any interactions since, and we are assuming that he's passed over that he's that he's dead. I'll just say it indelicately, we assume that he's kicked the bucket, but we have no proof of that. The only evidence we have is psychic in nature.
00:01:19 Exactly. Dreams, interacting this way, the way we work with our heavies on the other side. Our father apparently popped in, and what's weird about that, Jen? What is that? We don't really rely on our father for much of that. Right. So, it was notable, right? He wasn't a very reliable person. So, our listeners know that we reach out to Mom and Grandma and other people all the time. All day, every day. Yeah, we call on them to guide us.
00:01:51 They've passed over, too. Our dad? Not one of those people. Let's get right into it. Like I said, Jen and I yesterday had discovered another crazy dynamic to this whole road trip thing. Not only was Dad involved in guiding us like, in real time on the road, but when we sat down yesterday to discuss today's episode, it occurred to us that there are two really strong things going on here.
00:02:19 Jen, please explain what it is that I'm speaking of. Well, if you look back at each individual episode, together we've identified two really strong themes that we didn't see at first, but now through the lens of Dad leading us on this journey, it's pretty undeniable. So, what's the first theme that we identified? Yeah. The first one is a strong theme of family. Well, okay. So, if I look at, okay, the family theme, I'm assuming you're talking about Independence and the Swope family, right? Right. Where Dr. Greed… give me a recap of that. Oh, well the Swope family was a wealthy family, and Francis, the daughter, married a man named Dr. Hyde, and because Francis was going to inherit the family's money and because it was going to be split evenly amongst the siblings, he systematically started killing off members of that family. Okay. Sounds crazy similar to Osage county.
00:03:26 Tell me about that one. Exactly, because in that one, we have another family in Osage county, Oklahoma. This one is Osage, um, the Burkhart family and they have headrights, which are very valuable, and one of the husbands, Mr. Uh, Mr. Mollie Burkhart, I don't remember his first name. That's fair. No, let's just go with Mr. Mollie. He doesn't deserve a name. He and his uncle [and his brother] and his brother were systematically killing off the members of the family. So, he would inherit the fortune. Yes. Very, very similar. Okay. So, now we also have a different example of a family, the Bender family. That is a different example of a family. You know, technically, I really psychically do not believe that they were related at all. So, tell me how does that fit into our family theme? Well, whether or not they were actually a family related by blood, they lived as a family, and they killed as a family.
00:04:34 I mean, I see the Benders as a great example of like, dysfunction times 50. Like I can't think of a more dysfunctional family than the Benders, who were killing off people who are going through that trail. It was the Great Osage Trail, right? Right. Well, that wasn't far from their land at all so that they could rob them and then sell their belongings. Okay.
00:05:01 So tell me a little bit about the Shannon-Fisher feud out of Washington County, Arkansas. Tell me how that figures into our family dynamic. Well, I think that obviously you've got the two family groups. You've got the Shannons and you've got the Fishers and they're both, not only are they at odds in this crazy conflict, over a $30 bet, but both families end up being damaged or destroyed by the decisions made by a couple of members of each. And just really quick, in those four examples that we just discussed, you have families who are broken. Families who are damaged. Families who are dysfunctional, right there.
00:05:43 Damn. Yeah, I know, right? Hand me a tissue. Okay. What about, um, should we go to Nebraska City next? Joe Jesse James. Sure. Joe Jesse James, uh, Chase? What? Joe Jesse James Chase. That's his name, right? Joe Jesse Chase. Oh, you're right. Joe Jesse Chase. I was like, there's so many words here. Yeah. Joe Jesse Chase. Tell me about him and tell me about that family dynamic that fits into the family theme. Well, here we take a little bit of a turn and it goes from like large family units and takes on a little more individual like, father/son relationship type themes.
00:06:38 Here you have Jesse James, this famous outlaw, who had a son named Joe Jesse Chase in the Devil's Nest territory, where the Sioux people were living, and he's totally not recognized. He's not recognized by Jesse James himself, and he's not recognized today by the history books or the, you know, Wikipedia or many of the, uh, popular places where people, you know, get their information.
00:07:05 He was basically fathered and abandoned by this man. Sad story, Joe. Okay. Jen from Joe Jesse Chase, we go straight to Kalkaskia, Illinois, our first story we found. Kaskaskia. Kaskaskia, Illinois, our first story that we found on the road trip. How does that fit in? Yeah, this one is a little different from the rest because instead of a father figure, we have a mother figure here and it's all about Marie Jeanne, the enslaved woman who was accused and tried for murdering her child. Now you and I don't even believe there was a child, but if you, if you look at this story another way, it's not only about that, and about a mother and her relationship with a would be child, but the way the laws at the time led to the destruction of the family unit of enslaved peoples. The Noir Code that you had described in that episode, where the status of the ownership of a slave really meant if their mother was a slave and that dictated whether or not that being would be sold off, and it's really the destruction of a family in that way.
00:08:28 Absolutely. So we have another example of a way a family could be and was destroyed. I know, sad. What an uplifting episode, Jill. You found it. Um, and last with our family theme is Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Speak to me about it. Yeah. The Amidon Affair out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
00:08:54 Jill, this one is also tragic, but it has a hopeful ending and a hopeful message because even though Judge Amidon and his son were murdered by the Natives, who were scouting in the area during the Dakota Wars [that's right] Even though they were murdered in that tragic way, the fact is that their murder alerted the entire community to flee. And so the inhabitants did flee and there wasn't a massacre in Sioux Falls because of that. So in that way you have Judge Amidon and his son kind of saving the rest of his family, who weren't murdered by the natives, in the area. Who were legitimately upset and had legitimate beefs with, you know, the white people in the area.
00:09:43 But nonetheless, that one, um, it was the last one and it had more of a hopeful message, I think, don't you? I like, well, I like the fact that in spirit, I really do believe that, um, knowing the outcome of their deaths, they would have signed up for it. Like, for sure. For sure. 00:10:04 And you know what, Jill? I was looking back thinking, are we just crazy? Like, do we just have like, Dad and family on the mind? Like, are we looking for a theme that isn't there? So, I went back to Season 1, and I just did a precursory look over the episodes and it's not there. Like it's just not there. I don't think this is a coincidence. I really don't.
00:10:26 I love that you did that because yesterday. We literally had this conversation yesterday about this episode and that was that Oh My God moment that we realized that there are these themes and they're 10. Uh huh. We did not know that there were going to be 10 destinations, which is another weirdly... [10 stories] Yeah. 10 stories, 10 destinations. Yeah. Very strange. Very strange. Okay. So, we hit all that we identified as our family theme. But there's another. There is another, and a more intriguing side of this. Tell us about the second theme and how it works within our own family dynamic.
00:11:09 Well, the other theme, which three of our episodes from the road trip seem to fit into, is a theme involving immoral, narcissistic men. Ooh. Yeah, yeah. Spoiler alert. Shall we explore? Yeah. Should we explore that a little bit? Sure. And should we just call a dad, a dad, at this point? Like yeah. So our father, well, first we, you know, we alluded to Dad, but we don't really describe who he was as a person. So, do you want to take the lead on that? No, you do this better. You do this much better than I do. So, our father… uh, let me see if I can find a picture of him up on my wall here. Oh, you're going to read him as you… okay. What would you like me to say? So, our father, just to give you a visual, is a 6'3” blonde hair, blue eyes, dimpled, sun-kissed man.
00:12:08 And he is, [Geez, take it easy, Jill.] Well, I'm looking at the picture. A little uncomfortable here. Oh really? Beckwourth. Beckwourth lover. Shut up. His biggest strength was his charisma. That's true. Dad knew how to talk to people and really convince people to his way of thinking. Yeah. He could win anyone over. Oh, absolutely. And you know, honestly, I can see him doing it. We have a video of Dad talking to someone and I can see it happening. He was so good at it. He was good. He was a master. We learned a lot from watching him quote, unquote work. Yeah, exactly.
00:12:47 But, um, the, the, the things about Dad that you need to know, maybe listeners, as we explore this sort of immoral, narcissistic men theme is 1.) He was a thief, and 2.) He was a womanizer. Oh, Jennifer. I'm just gonna like, put it out there, right? So, to recap, Dad embezzled a lot of money from his company and that's why he skipped town. FBI.
00:13:13 So, thief? Yes, but give some context like, a thief can be stealing some bread. No, this man like, straight up stole a bunch of money and then hit the road. Next, move on. A womanizer? Do you want to elaborate on that? Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. First of all, women would act the fool around our father. It was embarrassing. Like, you couldn't go to a restaurant without the waitress, like [You couldn’t drive down the road] giving him their number. And he enjoyed it. Anyway, he got a lot of attention. Women threw themselves, so of course he was like a kid in the candy store. And he was probably a narcissist, back before I even knew the word narcissist. For sure, Dad was a narcissist. Like, he is not diagnosed, but I feel very comfortable giving my opinion of yes. I believe that he was a narcissist.
00:14:02 So we have a story out of Callaway county, Missouri, about a man named Daniel McIntyre. How would he relate to Father and his narcissism? Well, Daniel McIntyre, if you remember that story, was a self-starter. He had a major role in starting the, uh, Civil War aggression in his county, in Missouri. He was very much a go-getter, but he also had shady financial dealings and [yes, he did] and he, as the inspector of the prison, he and his cohorts, uh, made some decisions whereby they themselves would… [be beneficiaries of the prison’s operations.] Exactly. Again, kind of an immoral and shady thing.
00:14:56 And the people of the community were-- it was to their detriment because the prisoners, as you remember, were stealing suits and crashing parties, and we're running amok. And the citizens were like, writing the local officials and writing in the papers like, this needs to stop. They were also assaulting people, too. They weren't just stealing suits. True that. True that. You know, it’s just so… it's like a cartoon to me. Yeah, it's an incredible story. It really, really is. And then we have my friend, James Beckwourth. I don't think we have to talk too much more about this, except, honestly- [with his Crow leggings]
00:15:32 Honestly, he was a womanizer. He was definitely a rolling stone. He was a puffer. All the puffery about his stories that he would tell about himself. That pretty much does it, does it not? You're funny, Jen.
00:15:58 When Jessica was listening, our sister, Jessica was listening to the James Beckwourth episode, she like, called Jennifer and she was talking about how disturbed she was. So now Jennifer's really trying to put a lid on it. She's like, you know, James. Next, move on. 00:16:12 Lastly. Dear Dr. Menninger. Very good. It's the first time you said his name right. I know. I tried really hard. Okay, now go on. Oh, this one, this one. So, not only was Dr. Menninger, a bad husband to his wife Grace, [a shitty, horrible husband] he was a womanizer to the extreme and he might've been a talented doctor. He set up the clinic with his brother, but really that clinic served as [and father] and father, that clinic served as a kind of an arena for his own sexual exploitation or as I like to say, sexploitation.
00:16:45 Ew. Look at you. I see what you did there. Um, I find this so disturbing because he was supposed to be the expert on trauma and how it plays out in a human psyche and how that leads to certain behaviors and what he put his first wife, Grace, through was just so abusive, like 100%. And then, [ I agree with you.] Well, hold on a second, and then when he married his second wife really erased any, anything of Grace in his own personal history. It's just like a blip. And everything's about his second wife. But Jennifer, when did you, because during the episode we had, um, set up the outline, based on that your opinion was opposite of mine. When, what was your opinion? And when did that flip? Um, my opinion was that we were being too hard on Dr. Menninger, originally.
00:17:58 Mm hmm but why did you feel that way? Because I was thinking of like, Mad Men, like, the show and how like the culture at the time in the workplace was that you drink on your lunch break and you pat your secretary’s behind. Do you know what I mean? And it was just like a given that, you know, oh, what's it called? Sexual harassment happens at work. That was just a given. Um, but the thing that really made me flip on it was that whole yes, but… Yes, but he was a psychiatrist. He was an expert in emotional trauma. He was an expert on deviant behaviors and deviant thoughts. And he willingly and, um, purposefully played mind games on some of the people around him. Most, most often the women who he was trying to manipulate. And that for me, um, made me change my mind.
00:18:58 I know you were wanting to fight with me, but I had changed my mind by the time we recorded. And then you never told me, so we had this whole outline based on our push/pull opinions of it. [Yeah, I know] And then it was like, you do? You agree? I know you were all surprised. I was like, what the hell. Anyway, yeah, no. I liked that. I liked that turnaround that you made. I think that that was well thought out. I can see how you came around to it [thank you] I had to work it out originally. It was complicated. It's complicated because you don't want to judge people of history, people back in history outside of their time. Like, that's not fair. It's not fair to pluck someone out of their culture and environment and all of the thoughts they'd ever learned, you know, and judge them by modern day standards.
00:19:49 A hundred percent. I agree with you, but the fact he was the expert and that he was creating the context. He should have been healing people. Exactly. And he used that special knowledge and that expertise to really be abusive, not only towards women, but to the mother of his children and Grace, meaning Grace. Anyway, I'm going to get off my high horse with that one. So what does that leave us? Leaves us with some questions that we have about these episodes. Yes. I do have questions.
00:20:23 What is the most surprising take that you had on an episode, where you were like, you were most surprised about your feelings of an episode? Alright, I'm going to answer, and then you have to answer the same question. I am. I swear, I am. All right, fine. I was most surprised by how protective I was of James Beckwourth. Wow. Wow. Like I know, I, honestly, I swear to God. I was rooting for him. I swear to God. I did not. I should've seen this coming, but I did not. I did not see this coming, and we had this conversation yesterday. This, this is not what I thought you were going to say. Okay, what did you think I was going to say? I did not. What'd you think I was gonna say? Kalkaskia. Kaskaskia? I thought you were gonna say Kaskaskia. Oh no, I wasn't. No, I never even thought of that.
00:21:13 I wasn't surprised by my reaction. That was terrible. Well, the amount that we learned, the context of the Noir Code is what I thought would have been shocking to you. That it was so deep in the institutions of the time. No, I went more personal with it. What about you? What was the most surprising? Um, my feelings toward, um, Mrs. Hyde's daughter. Francis? Maggie's daughter. Yes. My ability to, um, learning her whole story, I had to stop myself from being really harsh on her because for real, she ruined everything. I'm not going to lie. She did. But then I realized that she was, it was a corrosive control dynamic that she had with her husband, which is abusive. And when you're separated from your family who gives you strength and identity and just isolated by someone who's gaslighting you, you can see how that can be spun out of control.
00:22:11 So, okay. So I forgive you, Francis. You've done your family dirty, but I forgive you. All right. Next question. Do you want me to ask you? Sure. What do you think Dad was trying or why do you think Dad was trying to draw our attention to these types of stories? This for me, I'm going deep on this. Oh, this is a deep cut. I really think that in his way, he is trying to acknowledge the way that he damaged our family by his actions. Awkward, but also goose pimpies, but I got him. So that's validation. Yeah. I can see that. And you? What do you think he was trying to call our attention to? You know, so I am a very big believer in, um, energy of certain situations still exists, even generations down. Right. And I think like when we were on our family road trip a couple years ago, in 2019, with Kim and Chris, I felt like we were doing healing work for our grandfather, that we've never met.
00:23:25 This road trip, I felt like we were doing healing work for Dad. I think that in retrospect, these stories kind of gave me a platform or a way to forgive him for personal things, not only that I experienced, but for my family whom I love and was hurt by. So I think that that gave me a platform to do it, in retrospect, but that is not, it's so deep and heavy and, and mushy, that is so not what was on our mind when I was eating double stuffed tacos and drinking. Like that's just not, but in retrospect, looking at this. Does that make sense? It does. And I think for people who weren't on the road trip, when you say doing healing for Dad, what you actually did was interacted with Dad's kids. Like, you know, family there that knew our Dad. Do you know what I mean?
00:24:20 Right. Because we were traveling to Topeka to meet our brother and our sister, and they’re the oldest of our brood, right? So they have [the strongest relationship] the strongest relationship. The strongest and oldest relationship with our Dad. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. So anyway, so for people who didn't understand that was healing, the actions that you took that we took to be together, and to say those words that are hard to say, you know, and to act in ways that are sometimes hard to act when you're with siblings that, you know [that's right] you got history with. That's right. So. I can do a whole podcast about that. Okay. Um, which one of these stories do you really identify with for me? Like when you look at this list, like which one pops out and be like, this is a Jilly story?
00:25:16 Which one is that? Okay. I have two. You have two? God, overachiever. I think that you should really spend some time meditating on your, um, parallel to the Joe Jesse Chase story for your daddy issues, and this is going to be a surprise for you. Oh my God. Jennifer, what your mommy issues with Maggie Swope. Whoa. Wow. Okay. Okay. I'm going to take one at a time. You don't have to respond.
00:25:59 You don't have to respond. I'm just telling you. All that is completely fair. I do love me some Maggie Swope, like for real.. And hated Francis? I hated Francis, but I did come to the table being like, I get it. I get it with Francis. All right. That's healing. That's forward. All right. Um, Joe, Jesse Chase. Absolutely I identify with my daddy [you were eight when he left] I was eight when he left and he never came back and I was in line going to gym one day in school.
00:26:31 And someone asked me about the newspaper article Dad was in. And just that notoriety that my dad was a criminal. You know what I mean? Like I totally over identify. People called me and asked me about that, too. Shut up. You never told me that. Well, what am I going to say? Wow, that's crazy. I never knew that. Okay. Do you want to know yours? Oh yes, please. I feel like I should do another one. I know. It's going to be Beckwourth. It's not Beckwourth. All right. Who is it? What is it? It's Sioux Falls. Why? Because you're constantly putting yourself last for people in your life that are a part of your family. Oh my goodness. Do you want me to name? No. That makes me uncomfortable. Okay. I'm just going to say one thing. No names. Well, technically this is a name, I guess.
00:27:30 When our mother was dying, you were accepted and going to get your doctorate and mom got sick and you dropped out of this program that you've been talking about for like three years. If you remember, when you and I drove to, um, West Virginia, you're like, you think I should get my doctorate? I'm like, yes, I think you should get your doctorate. And then two years later you were getting your doctorate and that happened and you just signed off.
00:27:54 You never mentioned it to mom. No, I didn't. Yeah. So, that's huge. I mean, she was dying. She had other things on her mind. I didn't want to put that on her. That's fair. That's fair. But that's what I mean. I think that you're very [that's very surprising. Wow] Oh my God. What did you think I was going to say? I don't know. Something mean. I mean, you brought up Beckwourth. I thought that was low-hanging fruit. I was like, we all know. Yeah. You did like a half hour of like, making fun of me about Beckwourth already. So, all right. Last question. Well, no. I have one more. Oh, what stories make you feel uncomfortable?
00:28:37 I'll go first because I know what it is. Okay. Dr. Menninger. I was going to say that, too. He is so creepy. I swear to God. I don’t know why that’s worse because Jennifer, think about the Bender family. That's pretty fricking upsetting. No, like, the John laughing, but I know it's Menninger and it's because it feels like Dad. It’s creepy. Ah, you know, I don't know if it feels like Dad. You know what it feels like Dad. I'll tell you.
00:29:13 I feel like it may feel like Dad just like the, the nasty, like sex thing, like ha ha. He’s the owner of his own business and he's like hiring hot girls and then like, yeah. That's true. I have a suspicion that Mom did not confirm for me, but I'm pretty sure he slept with every woman that was [Gross, gross, gross.] I'm I'm I'm not saying that that has been confirmed. That is just my suspicion. And is that the one that makes you the most uncomfortable, too? Menninger? That is, yes. It really is. Like, you know, I'm like, I look at this list and the Bender family should be like, Hey, Serial killers, but no. It’s Menninger.
00:29:55 Yes. I know for sure. Yeah. That's our issue coming out right there. Oh yes. Did you have another question? Yeah. A couple of questions. Um, what's your takeaway from this experience? I don't even know. I'm exhausted. That's my takeaway. Like we basically put ourselves on the line and to the test, just getting in a car for a week and driving around the country. We could have come up with nothing. True. For sure. It's vulnerable. I think we have to be in a vulnerable space to be like, okay, we're doing this and not feel like idiots, to be honest. Um, sometimes I still feel like an idiot when I do this. I think my biggest takeaway is we, we set out to do this. We say this at the beginning of every episode, “ to give voice to the voiceless,” but it always comes back around to us.
00:30:51 Oh, for sure. You know, it's almost like, it's almost like, you know that saying, um, it's impossible to give a good deed without getting something good back. If you do a good deed, you always get something good back. And I love that. I feel like we do this because we really do want to strengthen our abilities to communicate as mediums with people who've passed over. And we do want to give voice to the voiceless and give service to those souls who, when they were on earth, didn't have their voices heard, but it comes back to us and our own healing. And I think that's what we're seeing. I think after this, I'm in a better position to forgive Dad and I never had an opportunity with him on earth to say, I forgive you, Dad. Aw. That's nice. What about you? I think I, I mean, I really do forgive Dad and not only do I forgive Dad, but I was thinking about it today.
00:31:49 I was in the car for a long time today for work, but I was thinking about, um, what a privilege and um, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity. Not only to say, to learn more about myself and my own healing process with Dad, but also to be a voice for Dad to say he could've done that better. He shouldn't have done that. And he recognizes that his choices changed so many lives. The trajectory of so many lives that, that I may have not have thought of before this trip. Um, does that make sense? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, but I do forgive you Dad. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to skirt around that. It sounds like I have issues. No, Dad, I forgive you.
00:32:34 All right. Book that appointment with Dr. Lisa. I know, I feel gutted. I feel vulnerable. I know. I know this is a safe place. Why are you rocking? She's really rocking. Did you know you're doing that? I was getting worried like Jennifer. When we set out to do this, I had no idea it was going to be all about us, but here we go, it was all about us. Oh my God, we are narcissists. Ah, could be. It's a spectrum. Hey Jill, what are we doing for the rest of season two? Because we kind of finished up our road trip series, but what's coming next in the next few weeks. So, Jen and I had taken a trip to New York state and we are still researching stories from there. Turns out New York state, haunted AF. And it's like, real. Like the town that our sister Jessica lives in is legit, like just straight up haunted.
00:33:35 Like you feel like you're in a haunted house when you're like, walking down the block. So there's, they may have one or possibly two New York episodes, not sure yet to come, but also a Halloween bonus, yes? Yes. A Halloween bonus. And then what I didn't tell Jennifer today is that while I was working my day job at Metro Recycling Solutions, I had the opportunity to meet [Ms. Tiyi] with Ms. Rita. Yes, and I asked her, we had a long conversation, and I asked her about my dream, my spooky ass dream, and I think that we're going to have a bonus episode with Tiyi coming up. We'll talk about how that looks and what we're going to talk about, but she is freaking amazing, and I love her stories. For our listeners, explain who she is. She is a, I'm just going to say a psychic.
00:34:29 She is someone who practices in that kind of, um, divination and those arts. She's an author. She's a storyteller. And she has a Facebook page where she tells stories. She does, and when I have that accessible to me, I will plug it. And she's just a wonderful person, like honestly, and it was very insightful and I feel like it's another opportunity to take what we're doing and to level up with more context so we can be better mediums and people all around. Wow. Well that sounds fantastic. Are you excited? Yes, of course. Few things are coming up in the next few weeks and then we'll be done at the end of October for a much needed break. I also have one more thing to tell you. We… wrap it up. She's giving me the wrap. Um, we have to go to a commercial apparently, but, um, but we have a bonus episode, additionally, on grief coming up during the holiday season.
00:35:31 So, we have Tiyi and grief coming up in addition to our Halloween episode and our two, possibly two destinations out of New York state. So we got five more, Jennifer. You're not getting rid of me. You have five more, at least. All right, sounds good. Tell the people where they can find us. Well, check out our website, commonmystics.net. Find us on Facebook, Instagram and our Twitter feed at Common Mystics Pod. You can listen in on Audible, Amazon, Stitcher, Spotify, Tuned-in, Google podcasts, Apple podcast, where you can leave us a positive review so other people can find us. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. And good night.
