142: Young and Evil in Imlay City, MI

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, guys, it's Jill. Jen and I wanted to give you. [00:00:03] Speaker B: A heads up about the content on today's episode. It may be triggering for more sensitive audiences. Refer to the show notes for more specifics and take care while you listen. [00:00:21] Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we travel to a quiet Midwestern town whose history carries a tragedy so shocking and senseless that it still echoes decades later. I'm Jennifer James. [00:00:39] Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley. [00:00:40] Speaker A: We're psychics. [00:00:41] Speaker B: We're sisters. [00:00:43] Speaker A: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. And today's story takes us to Imlay City, Michigan. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Oh, guys, I am not being hyperbolic when I say that this story story is probably one of the hardest that we are sharing with you. So in addition to our trigger in the beginning, please take care while you listen because it's a hard one. We're going to try to do our shenanigans. We're going to try to lighten it up and still be respectful. But it is a difficult story to tell for sure. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Thanks for that, Jill. Tell everybody where we were, what we were doing in August of 2025. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Well, Jen, it was August 30, 2025, and we love our patrons. Our patrons keep us going. Our tier 4 patrons are like family to us, literally. [00:01:35] Speaker A: That's true. [00:01:35] Speaker B: And one of our tier four patrons was just like, awfully silent for like six weeks. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Very unlike him. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Very unlike him. And the thing is, is that he lives in Michigan, so he's way too close to him us to be going awol. Right. So we decided we were going to man nap him and make him come with us to find the story. [00:01:58] Speaker A: We did. We gave him a heads up that we were coming. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Well, we didn't want to get arrested. We didn't want this to be a legitimate man napping. [00:02:11] Speaker A: The cutest thing was when we told him, we're coming to kidnap you. He said, ooh, I always wanted to be kidnapped. Is that too much? Oh, he'll love it. We're gonna leave it. I can hear him laughing already. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Well, Bug is certainly not having it. He's like, not in this house. Yeah. So we went to his house and we knocked on the door and we're like, we're here. We're going to kidnap you. And he was like, yes, you are. And he brought some snacks for the road, and we played with his dog and we met his roommate, and it was wonderful. And then we got down to business and we set our intention. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Yes. Which was, as it always is, to ask the Spirits to lead us to a verifiable story previously unknown to us, that allows us to give voice to the voiceless. [00:03:07] Speaker B: So we leave our dear Ed's house with Ed in the car. He's not shackled. He has no duct tape. [00:03:15] Speaker A: He wasn't resisting. [00:03:17] Speaker B: He wasn't resisting because he knew we were gonna do this the hard way or the easy way. He chose the easy way. And he brought us tomatoes. So that was great. So we leave his house in St. Clair Shores. And I was feeling northwest of that area. So that. And he. And I have to Ed's credit, he. This is his stomping grounds. He did not. [00:03:41] Speaker A: He didn't direct us corrupt. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah. He did not corrupt the psychic abilities coming through at all. So yay on Ed. Okay, so we're headed northwest. [00:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:51] Speaker B: I'm feeling Willy Wonka. I am singing children's songs in the car. We're all jumping in on the Willy Wonka songs that we know and love and grew up with. [00:04:00] Speaker A: Ed was feeling children as well, that children in particular were going to be our voiceless. [00:04:07] Speaker B: And we were like, okay, that sounds creepy. Like, you know how children can be creepy? [00:04:11] Speaker A: Children can be creepy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:13] Speaker B: There's nothing creepier than like, 1, 2, 3. Freddy's coming for, like, that creepy. [00:04:18] Speaker A: So the shining twins or the two girls in the hallway. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Danny, come play with us. Danny. Yeah, no, that's creepy. [00:04:26] Speaker A: So can we say that in unison? Ready? [00:04:30] Speaker B: 1, 2, 3. Danny, come play with us. Danny. No, that doesn't work. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Okay, let's keep going. We try. [00:04:43] Speaker B: They sound like they stroked in unison. It doesn't work. But we're gonna leave that in because. Let's keep going. This is how the sausage is made. If you're ever wondering what we don't leave in. Oh, boy, oh, boy. Have we got treats for you. Meet us on detours. Okay, so Ed specifically said, no, not creepy children. Like happy children. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Take it from there. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Also, I had a real mid century vibe. Like, feeling. Well, feeling that the story was going to take place literally in the middle of the 20th century. [00:05:27] Speaker B: It's a great part of the. Part of time for some things came up. Yeah, good things mostly came up. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Good things, bad things, depending on your perspective. But we won't get into it. Racism, plastics. What are you gonna do? But we. We digress. [00:05:43] Speaker B: Okay. So I was getting the feeling that we needed to get to the countryside. Our story was gonna be in the countryside. And Ed said specifically that we will be passing lavender fields. So to get to our story or where our story will be. We will have to pass Lavender fields. [00:06:07] Speaker A: That is incredible. I was feeling a familiar family name. And what were you picking up on? [00:06:17] Speaker B: I was picking. Well, I will say we were all picking up on this, but I. Put me down. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. [00:06:24] Speaker B: But we were all talking about the county fair. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Just like you taking credit. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was all me. I. I brought it up and everyone jumped on that bandwagon. That's just how we do it. No, but we were all talking about, like a county fair and like Charlotte's Web and how fun it was. It must have been to, like, go to the county fair. That must have been a big deal. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So where do we end up, Jill? [00:06:47] Speaker B: We ended up in Imlay City, Michigan. [00:06:50] Speaker A: Had you ever been there before? [00:06:53] Speaker B: For work. Oh, really? [00:06:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Like for recycling work? Not for my psychics. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear you. [00:06:59] Speaker B: So we get out of the car, classic mess around through town. We're petting dogs. We're eating ice cream. We're going to the local museum where we found out. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Well, I just have to stop you right there before you get into the museum, because we all weren't petting dogs. This is what happened. We were driving down. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Do you have to be the little. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Yes. Is it the downtown area? When Jill, who was driving, saw a Great Dane that looked very friendly. And so she said, oh, my God, a dog. And pulled over real fast. Ed and I stayed in the car while Jill ran. Ran up to a Great Dane and started molesting it. You were all over that dog. [00:07:41] Speaker B: We were all over each other. Okay. I will have you know that it was mutual. It was not one sided. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Its owners were nice but confused. [00:07:52] Speaker B: They were concerned. They haven't seen such a large individual run towards them in their life, so they're a little taken aback. [00:08:00] Speaker A: But the best part is after, I don't know, one, two minutes, it's. It seemed like an eternity, Jill comes walking back to the car. And as soon as you got in, I was like, you stink like dog. [00:08:15] Speaker B: I did too. [00:08:17] Speaker A: You reeked like a Great Dane. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Oh, a special kind of stank. [00:08:21] Speaker A: How long did it take? [00:08:22] Speaker B: Special? [00:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah. How long did it take for that aroma to dissipate from your Toyota? [00:08:28] Speaker B: You know, it's like birthday. You know, like you only remember the good parts and you choose. [00:08:35] Speaker A: You choose to forget. Yes. [00:08:36] Speaker B: The smell that came with it. So all I remember feeling was the ecstasy and the love of that amazing. Great date. It was gray. It was really cute. [00:08:47] Speaker A: It was beautiful. It was beautiful. [00:08:48] Speaker B: It smelled. [00:08:49] Speaker A: And it left us. Yes, it did. Okay, carry on. The museum, you were saying? [00:08:54] Speaker B: Well, then we went out and we ate ice cream. Ed treated us to ice cream, which I really enjoyed. [00:09:00] Speaker A: It was really nice. [00:09:01] Speaker B: And then we went to the museum in town. And the thing is, is that Imlay City has a robust historical museum with a lot of things throughout its history, including the history of the county fair. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Being in Inlay City, which we had no clue. [00:09:19] Speaker B: No clue. Who knew that? Who would know that? [00:09:21] Speaker A: So as we're exploring the town, you and Ed had a couple more pretty impressive hits. And you typed social path. But I'm pretty sure you. You meant to write sociopath, because I'm getting pretty good at reading. Jill? Yeah. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Can I ask you a question that really happened to me today, and I really don't know the answer. This really happened today? [00:09:47] Speaker A: Sure. [00:09:48] Speaker B: I was sitting, getting my nails done, and. And the jar that the color was in said polish. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Come on, Jill. [00:10:01] Speaker B: I swear to God, Jill. And I was like, polish? Is Polish the same as Polish? Are they spelled the same? And I sat there and I still don't know the answer. I have to Google it. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Are you serious? Yes. They're spelled the same way. I was like, polish. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Well, I'm Polish. I should get that color. All right. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Wow. [00:10:29] Speaker B: That really happened. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Okay, so sociopath. You actually were picking up on a sociopath? [00:10:36] Speaker B: Yes. Someone who is void of emotion. Someone who just understands or appreciates their own experience. Excitement or their own levels of disappointment or excitability. That's what I was feeling. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Wow. That would be relevant, as you will find out. Ed. Ed was picking up on the old school park and had feelings of coming and going to school. [00:11:08] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:09] Speaker A: And then what else, Jill? [00:11:13] Speaker B: Oh, Jennifer. So we get in the car and we're getting tired. So I'm like, spideys, take me to the cemetery. Because, you know, loaded, loaded. We got me a story. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Story. [00:11:24] Speaker B: So take us to the cemetery. So I actually was using my Spidey sense, and I started heading one way out of town. And the interesting thing is we were surrounded by lavender fields on the highway. And I was like, okay. But I was like, okay, but the cemetery is in a different direction. So I had to turn around in the parking lot of the lavender fields to go back to use my Spideys to get to the cemetery. And we ended up in the Imlay Township cemetery. And there was another dog there, a not so friendly dog. I wouldn't get out of the car. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Okay, so shall we talk a little bit about Imlay City, Michigan? [00:12:07] Speaker B: No. Because we're not done yet. We were all feeling that our Voiceless was in that cemetery specifically. And it was getting really late. So we decided instead of roaming around the cemetery. Cause it was kind of large and we were getting tired. That we really should take Ed home at this point because he's been such a good victim through all of this. [00:12:24] Speaker A: And before his loved ones start to worry and call the cops. [00:12:26] Speaker B: True, true. So we decided to go home. But we were certain that the names of the people that we would give voice to were in and buried in that cemetery. [00:12:35] Speaker A: Wow. I can't wait to circle back to this one, because I legit do not know. But the setup makes me believe we were right. But again, stay till the end to find out. Is it time now to talk about Imlay City, Michigan? [00:12:49] Speaker B: Will you please tell me about the founding and the growth of the city of Imlay City, Michigan? [00:12:54] Speaker A: Well, first of all, let me say that it is located approximately 50 miles north of Detroit. And also the name Imlay, I was curious about that. And it turns out that a man named William H. Imlay owned vast tracts of land in the area. So when the city was founded, they just named it after him. Hence Emlay City. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Kind of lazy way to name a city, you know? [00:13:20] Speaker A: Sure. Imlay City was settled in 1870 when the port Huron and Lake Michigan Railroad pushed rail lines through the area. Charles Palmer, the railroad's chief engineer, platted the town as a produce market. And the community quickly grew there, gaining a post office and other businesses. The village was incorporated in 1871. Now, of course, railroads were vital to this town's early success. Sounds like it. They brought goods and mail and of course, travelers. And they even put in some streetcar lines in 1914, which is rare for small towns of that size. But so super cute, so super cool. [00:14:08] Speaker B: You can kind of. When you're walking around, you can. Not that they're still visible, but you can imagine them being there, like in time. You can see the streets and how they were laid out and how there would be a streetcar line on them. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it definitely adds to the character of the city. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Sure, I will. On a personal note, when there was a lot of witchy vibes going on in that city, there were. We should talk if there's any kind of witchy, like, associations with Imlay, because we were picking up a lot on that. So maybe stay tuned for Detours. Oh, I love that about Imlay. Witches, if any. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Okay, write that down because one of us is going to forget and then we're going to Sit here next week going, what are we going to talk about for detours. Will you please write that down? [00:14:54] Speaker B: I don't have a pen on me. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Right now, so no. All right, very good. And moving on. [00:15:00] Speaker B: I am the best secretary. I swear to God. I'm like, yeah, no, absolutely not, Miss. I think not. You're the one with the pen. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm writing it down. Okay. So you might ask, what was life like in this community of Emlay City? [00:15:18] Speaker B: I would love to know. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Well, throughout the early 20th century, the city developed a really lively and cute main Street. And there were community organizations and an infrastructure that reflected a thriving small town. And importantly, the Lapier County Agricultural Society held its first fair at Imlay City in October of 1896. This brings me back to meet me in St. Louis. That movie. [00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. [00:15:56] Speaker A: I know it takes place in St. Louis, but that whole excitement around the fair, the fair coming to town. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Can you please, for some of our younger audiences, explain what you're talking about when you say the movie meet me in St. Louis? [00:16:12] Speaker A: I'm serious. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Because we have. Yeah, we do have younger audiences that may not know what you're talking about. [00:16:17] Speaker A: Well, meet me in St. Louis is one of my all time favorite movies. I believe it was during the early 40s that it was made. Early 1940s with Judy Garland. And the whole idea is that during the time, audiences in America were sick of the war because it was during World War II and people just wanted full, frothy entertainment with no real drama. Right. That's what audiences were seeking. So this literally is a movie about nothing. It is a year in the lives of this family who is living in St. Louis. And the big question is, are they going to stay in St. Louis? Are they going to move? And it is delightful from beginning to end. Judy Garland shines. I can watch that movie every day and not get sick of it. Love it. Meet me in St. Louis. 1940. Something. I don't remember early 40s. Okay, moving on. Now, I thought you were gonna say about the fair. [00:17:11] Speaker B: I also wanted to bring attention to the way we Michiganders pronounce Lapeer is Lapier. [00:17:18] Speaker A: What did I say? [00:17:19] Speaker B: You said it weird. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Lapier. [00:17:22] Speaker B: Yeah, something. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Okay. Lapierre. Lapierre. Thank you for that. [00:17:25] Speaker B: You're welcome. [00:17:26] Speaker A: So by the early 1900s, the fair actually became a major regional event. Jill. And electric trolleys from Detroit brought crowds of 50 people per car, making the fair a destination not just for locals, but from visitors from larger cities. [00:17:48] Speaker B: That makes me so happy. I did not know that. [00:17:51] Speaker A: You didn't. [00:17:52] Speaker B: No, I didn't. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Okay. Cause you wrote this. [00:17:55] Speaker B: I'm so. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Oh, you mean. But okay, let's keep going. [00:17:58] Speaker B: I learned as I was writing it, but I did not know that that little Imlay city was an attraction at that magnitude. [00:18:06] Speaker A: I know. That's what I mean. I know. Very impressive. I earned that. The fairgrounds hosted exhibits of livestock, different types of competitions. I imagine it was like pie eating the fun. Like apple bobbing. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Pre Ozempic would get. You would have a run for your money. I swear to God. Yeah, like hook me up with some French sauce soak and watch me go. [00:18:35] Speaker A: And apple bobbing like pre understanding of bacteria. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Pre Covid. Yeah. Entertainment, dance halls, baseball games and later rides and grandstand events. So major draw. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Very cool. [00:18:51] Speaker A: And over the decades, the fair helped strengthen community identity, fostering local pride in agriculture and providing a shared social space for people across Lapeer. [00:19:04] Speaker B: La Pair. Lapeer County. [00:19:06] Speaker A: La Pair County. Like the fruit. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Lapier. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Lapier. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Lapier. Now you're just. [00:19:10] Speaker A: This is gonna be fun. [00:19:11] Speaker B: No, I'm just with you. Apple. [00:19:15] Speaker A: The Eastern Michigan State Fair grew and it became. This fair was a multi summer tradition again. Rides, livestock shows, demolition derbies. Demolition derbies. Attractions that drew crowds across the region. [00:19:34] Speaker B: I want to go to a demolition derby. [00:19:36] Speaker A: I don't think you'd like it. [00:19:37] Speaker B: I do. I like that. Yeah. [00:19:40] Speaker A: I mean, you like to destroy things, but would you like to watch other people destroy things? [00:19:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I like to say. Okay. Sees things smash. That would be cool. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Maybe Chad will take you. Sure. There's got to be one around. Around. [00:19:51] Speaker B: There is. Is there? Not in the creek, but in the zoo in the Kalamazoo area. [00:19:56] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Got it. You got a transition for me? [00:19:59] Speaker B: I do. Jennifer. If I were one living in the mid century and I was living in one Imlay City in La Pere county in La Pere, what kind of life would I have? Tell me what my lifestyle would be. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness, Jill, I'm so glad you asked. Between the 1930s and the 1950s, your life would be defined by routine, familiarity and deep community connection in and around Emily City. It wasn't isolated, but it wasn't bustling either. Right. So it was kind of that middle ground. It was steady grounded, shaped by agriculture, but also had industry. But the people shared social norms. And it overall was a small town where everybody knew each other. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Life predictable, moving pace. I mean, you can imagine it. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Right? Let's talk about what the kids did, what the children did. [00:20:55] Speaker B: What would it be like Growing up. [00:20:56] Speaker A: In Imlay City, well, the children would have walked around the neighborhood schools to and from. They would have rode the buses from surrounding farms to come into town. There would have been one room schoolhouses. Ugh. They still existed on the outskirts of town, even in the 1950s. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah, my father in law grew up in Michigan, obviously, and he went to a one room schoolhouse in Banfield. [00:21:22] Speaker A: That is insane. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Classrooms were orderly, traditional, where, you know, the kids had to recite, the students had to make recitations or like learn something and then recite it. They practice cursive writing, arithmetic, drills, all the things. We don't really teach so much in schools anymore. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Well, they did when I was in school because I was like, oh, I remember that. And now you're like, they don't teach it anymore. Now I feel very old. [00:21:52] Speaker A: No, well, you are. And after school, the children were largely on their own until suppertime, maybe roaming the neighborhoods or helping at home. [00:22:03] Speaker B: So farm life and the responsibilities families would have. Talk to me. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah, whole new dynamic here. Many families lived on farms or had relatives who lived on farms. And the children would help with the chores like collecting eggs, milking cows, stacking hay, tending gardens. You get the idea. [00:22:23] Speaker B: I would not be good at any one of those things. Not a one. [00:22:27] Speaker A: And even kids from town would spend their summers working on the farms, doing things like picking beans or earning pocket money in other ways. [00:22:36] Speaker B: That's really cool. So, Jennifer. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:41] Speaker B: What if I wanted to have fun? Am I like whipping out my Atari? What's happening? [00:22:44] Speaker A: Oh, I wasn't sure what you were gonna whip out. I'm glad it was Atari. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Wow. [00:22:50] Speaker A: What? [00:22:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. Wow. Okay. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Entertainment. [00:22:53] Speaker B: Guttermind Entertainment. Do we have a gutter mind? [00:22:57] Speaker A: Do we? Little gutter entertainment was simple and mostly outdoors. Children would bike ride, they would play baseball, they would explore the natural environment, like explore the creek. They might ice skate in the winter. So basically you're out on your own. [00:23:15] Speaker B: So, Jennifer. [00:23:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Take me to the incident. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Okay, so here's where listeners, if you're a sensitive listener, you might want to take care during this part of the story because it does. It gets dark here. So the Smith family was a family living in a rural area just outside of Imlay City, Michigan. And like many families in Lapeer county, they were modest people, they were working class people, and they were well known in the community. Everybody knew the smith family. Now, Mr. William Smith and Ellen May Smith had 11 children. [00:24:04] Speaker B: God bless them. My God. [00:24:06] Speaker A: I think it was a benefit to have a lot of children when you lived On a farm. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Generally speaking, I. I can't even imagine that mindset, but I believe what you're saying. [00:24:17] Speaker A: There are a lot of children. 11. Four of them were from William's first marriage, which ended with his first wife's death. But together, William and Ellen May had additional children. Their names were Eleanor, Evelyn, Ella, Barbara, Stanley, Gladys and Janet. [00:24:44] Speaker B: And these, this family is the subject of the incident that Jennifer is about to describe on Memorial Day, Monday, May 26, 1947. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Correct. William Smith and one of his older sons were going to market that day. Now, William was in the habit of rotating the child he would take into. Into market with him. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Isn't that the cutest, sweetest thing I can ever think of? [00:25:12] Speaker A: He would switch off so that he could spend some one on one time with each of them. So on this day, May 26, 1947, William. We don't know who he took this day. [00:25:27] Speaker B: No, he had one of the older boys. [00:25:28] Speaker A: All right, well, he had one. We don't know. Sorry. We don't know which of the. The children went with him on this particular day. But Ellen May also was out. She had left the home to run errands and do other other things outside the house. And the older children who remained at home were supposed to be watching the younger ones. This, by the way, is called parentification, and it has long term emotional effects. Thank you for that sad music. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Now back. Jennifer, come back. [00:26:07] Speaker A: I'm back now. At some point during that afternoon, Barbara Smith, age 16, Stanley Smith, age 14, Gladys Smith, age 12, and Janet Smith, age 2, left the house together and walked toward a wooded elevated area locally known as Sugarloaf Hill. It was a familiar spot used for walking and playing outdoors. Okay. They did not arrive home as expected. And so at home, as it started to get dark and dinner was on the table, concern was growing. And Mrs. Smith asked Ella to trace down her brother and sisters. Family members and neighbors began searching the nearby roads and paths for the children. The authorities were notified when it became clear that they were missing. Eventually, it was Ella who discovered bodies that evening on Sugarloaf Hill. They were found together in the wooded area lying where they had fallen, with no signs of prolonged struggle. The children were all shot at close range. All four victims died from their gunshot wounds. And the killings had occurred in a secluded wooded area, partially hidden from nearby paths or homes. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Well, who, Gosh, who could have committed such horrific crimes against children? [00:28:10] Speaker A: Well, that was the question. And investigators wouldn't have to look too far to find the answer. [00:28:17] Speaker B: All right, who? [00:28:18] Speaker A: There was a 16 year old boy that lived near the the Smith family. His name, Oliver Terpenning Jr. Oliver lived near Imlay City in the same rural area as the Smith children. He came from a working class farm community typical of the region. There's no public record of extreme poverty of any sort of family trouble or scandal. No prior violent behavior was noted about Oliver. He wasn't even described as a troublemaker in early accounts. There's no record to show any arrests, juvenile detention or violent incidents before this crime. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Okay, then how did the police decide that it was Oliver who committed this. These murders? [00:29:15] Speaker A: Well, Oliver would confess in a confession. He stated that he acted alone committing the killings. And investigators backed this up. There was no evidence of any accomplice acting with Oliver. And his confession was consistent with the physical evidence at the scene. Oliver admitting that he brought a.22 caliber rifle with him and that the weapon was not taken in the heat of an argument. He wasn't even angry when he decided to take it. But it was brought intentionally. So Oliver actually gave a detailed account of what happened that day that was given to the Detroit Free Press on Sunday, January 9, 1972. This is many years later. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Correct. [00:30:14] Speaker A: And so what we're telling you has come directly from his account. Oliver recalls a summer day in the woods with Stanley Smith and Stanley sisters. While holding a rifle, he experiences a sudden thought about killing and decides to act on it. [00:30:41] Speaker B: The thing is, is that the boys went that day to hunt small game and frogs. But apparently there was no game out that day that they could get their hands on or target at. So his thirst for hunting wasn't satisfied. Yeah. [00:31:07] Speaker A: And so thinking about killing, he decided to act. And he shot Stanley without warning and assumed he was dead. Then Oliver follows the girls, feeling detached from his surroundings. And he actually, in his account, says that he debated whether or not to kill them. Then he chose to proceed and do so. He shot Gladys first, who dies immediately. Barbara reacts with terror, recognizing what's happening. Janet appears confused and frightened. Oliver says he hesitates briefly, then shoots Barbara. And when Barbara does not immediately die, Oliver fires repeatedly until silence return. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Then his rifle aims at Janet. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Per Oliver's account in the Free Press, he tries to kill himself. And he raises the barrel of the rifle beneath his chin and tries to reach the trigger with his left hand, but is unable to. It is then that he decides to run off and leave the others behind. This is a quote he said right from the beginning. When I left the woods, I didn't run like a man who had killed for Revenge, hatred, money, or any other common reasons, though vividly aware of what I've done. I started home, a boy with a rifle slung under his arm, sauntering down a country road, having spent a day shooting at tin cans. That's how he felt immediately after. In his account, Oliver goes on describing what he did after he left the woods. Oliver went straight home and behaves unusually calmly with his family. In fact, he sits with his stepmother and eats ice cream with his father and his sister, showing no signs of outward distress. But suddenly, suddenly he feels an instinct to flee and decides to run. So he takes his father's car under a false excuse, retrieves boots from a friend, and then drives toward Port Huron. So he told his father he needed to borrow the car to pick up these galoshes that he left at someone's house. He actually got the galoshes and then drove out of town. [00:34:28] Speaker B: But the thing is that the gas gauge is telling Oliver he can't go much farther than Port Huron. [00:34:36] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:34:38] Speaker B: So he abandons the car, his father's car, in Port Huron, and he's picked. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Up by a stranger. The stranger drives him towards Ohio, and later, when he was asked, Oliver couldn't recall anything about the man who drove him or the trip. And when police apprehend him near Toledo, Oliver knows why, but he chooses to lie anyway. This is a quote Oliver said during questioning. I lied about my name and where I was headed. Then I decided to give up. I might as well tell you the truth. I said, I'm the guy you're looking for. My name is Oliver. He was taken into custody by Ohio State Police and quickly transferred to Michigan, transported under sirens to the state police headquarters in Lansing. Oliver is then questioned for several hours and gives a formal confession to state and county officials. After a brief break, he gives a second confession to a large group of waiting reporters. He is then interrogated again for several more hours to expand on his original statements. And Oliver would describe himself later as responding mechanically, just answering questions without any emotion. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Oh, Jen. Did he go on trial for these crimes because he is a kid himself? 16 years old. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Yeah, 16. Although he was only 16 years old, prosecutors immediately sought to have him tried as an adult due to the severe severity of this crime. There was a probate juvenile court hearing, and the court waived juvenile jurisdiction, meaning that he would be tried in the circuit court as an adult and face adult criminal penalties despite his age. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Wow. [00:36:39] Speaker A: And this decision was lawful under Michigan statutes at the time. [00:36:43] Speaker B: Okay. Was there any claim of insanity or was he evaluated for Sanity? [00:36:51] Speaker A: Yes. The court actually ordered a sanity evaluation. [00:36:55] Speaker B: What does that mean? [00:36:56] Speaker A: They evaluated his mental state at the time of the murders, and also they evaluated his competency to stand trial. [00:37:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:37:07] Speaker A: And it was concluded that he was legally sane. And this finding eliminated any insanity defense and allowed the case to proceed normally. [00:37:18] Speaker B: And when you say legally insane, what we're talking about is that the law believed him to know what he was doing was wrong and that he was aware that he was committing wrongdoing at the time of the murders. Just to be clear. Right. I'm a Judge Judy Loiter. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Some of his actions do point to that as well. That he knew. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:43] Speaker A: You don't flee. Right. You don't decide to flee if you think that what you did was fine. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Right, right. Also, the. When I was reading over his confession, in it, he alludes to the fact that his stepmother and him have not the best relationship. And although she was, like, very curt and kind of derogatory towards him, he sat there emotionless and just took it in with like an 8 ice cream and didn't respond the way he usually would. And for me, it feels like that is not a sign of insanity, but a sign of sanity. That he's kind of like. Like either having an out of body euphoric experience or he is just like, processing what had just happened. Just in my view, in my Judge Judy lawyer opinion, psychologist opinion. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Oliver was formally charged with first degree murder. And rather than contest the charges, Oliver pled guilty. There was no jury trial. There was no attempt to dispute the facts of the crime. And what happened was this plea spared the families and spared the community from a prolonged public trial, which must have felt like a blessing, truly. [00:39:16] Speaker B: It does. Even saying it feels like a blessing, doesn't it? [00:39:19] Speaker A: It does. Except it also meant that there were a lot of questions that were never fully explored. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Mmm. Right. [00:39:31] Speaker A: So the court focused on sentencing, not determining guilt. Prosecutors summarized his confession, the lack of motive, the utter lack of motive, and the number of victims for. And the ages of the victims. The defense considered Oliver's youth, his background, and his cooperation. But the court landed on the intentional nature of the killings, the number of victims, and the extreme danger to public safety. [00:40:09] Speaker B: No kidding. [00:40:12] Speaker A: And so he was sentenced. Sentenced to life imprisonment. [00:40:18] Speaker B: And now what does that mean? [00:40:20] Speaker A: Well, at the time, Michigan had no parole eligibility guarantee for life sentences. And so. [00:40:27] Speaker B: So it's not like you got out in 30 years, right? [00:40:29] Speaker A: No, no, no. A life sentence often meant exactly that. A life sentence, like you are locked up for the rest of your life. [00:40:37] Speaker B: With no possibility of parole. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Correct. And the judge. The judge's ruling reflected the court's belief that rehabilitation for him could not outweigh public safety. Good. And the crime was beyond mitigation by age alone. Meaning that Oliver's youth did not lessen his responsibility or his punishment. So you can just write that off. [00:41:09] Speaker B: I mean, I agree with that. So the aftermath of the trial. What? Tell me how the community coped. What happened to Oliver. Give me it all. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Oliver was transferred to the Michigan prison system. The case effectively ended quickly, legally speaking. Years later, he did attempt to challenge procedural issues surrounding the juvenile waiver, but his conviction was upheld. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Thank God. [00:41:43] Speaker A: For Imlay City. The legal resolution didn't bring emotional closure, however. Instead, it just ushered in silence. Jill, I have to ask you, what happened at the end of Oliver's life? Or is he still alive? He couldn't still be alive. [00:42:06] Speaker B: Oliver died in prison on October 29, 2010, just short of his 80th birthday. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Wow. Good. [00:42:17] Speaker B: At the time of the murders and his conviction, he was almost 17 years old. He was about 16 and a half. And he died just shy of his 80th birthday in prison. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Why do you think this trial still matters? [00:42:37] Speaker B: I think the trial is remembered less for a courtroom drama and more for what it represented. It was a child that was tried as an adult, which. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Unusual. [00:42:54] Speaker B: Yeah, very unusual. Unusual. And especially in the area and the time. We're talking. Eddie Haskell. We're talking, like, beautiful rural Michigan where it's not unusual for a kid to sling a rifle on his arm and go out to shoot cans. Like, that's not unusual. And so to have this child saying, well, you're. You're so much of a public safety risk that you're going to jail forever, but you're also being tried as an adult. Right. The community is forced to look at this. This monster is a product of our community. And what does that mean? [00:43:37] Speaker A: What does that mean? Unthinkable. Yeah. [00:43:38] Speaker B: Like, how did. How did. How did. This isn't someone from out of town. This isn't a wanderer or someone who doesn't know this. This is. So this is one of us. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:49] Speaker B: You want to chime in here? Because I can keep going. [00:43:52] Speaker A: No, I. I think, too, it feels like this was so painful that people wanted to close the case and move on from it, because it's so senseless and so tragic and so painful. I really feel like this whole community just wanted this to end, make this nightmare end and let us move on. And so that's what the Legal system did. They didn't drag it out in court. They didn't ask a lot of questions. But. But many residents later would say that the speed. The speed of the trial. Not the trial, but the speed of the legal proceedings and the fact that it was kept so quiet, it mirrored how the town was trying to cope. And they didn't want to talk about it. Right. And what that means, I think, for you and me, is that when I tried to find out what were the children like, what was Barbara like at age 16? What was Stanley like, What was Gladys like? What about Janice at 2 years old? What were their personalities? What did they like to do? What were their hobbies? Were they good at school? Are there any teachers who talked about them? Any essays that wrote that could give us some insight into their lives? None. Nothing survives about these children. Do you know what I mean? [00:45:23] Speaker B: I know exactly what you mean. Because. Because it was so heinous and so tragic, they had to wipe away the memory of these children's very existence. [00:45:34] Speaker A: I'm getting goosebumps, Jill. I'm getting goosebumps right now, as you. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Say, that they just couldn't deal with. With the tragedy that was Oliver and what he did that day to the Smith family. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:45:47] Speaker B: So they had to just wipe it all away. We're not talking about them. We'll warn them and repress it. [00:45:53] Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna repress those emotions. We're gonna move on with life because it's just too painful to deal with. [00:46:01] Speaker B: And with that in mind, knowing that we were in town that day, a town that prides itself on its history, prides itself on its legacy and its heydays and their trials and what they've been through, how they grew and what they survived through. You would think there would be a plaque on Sugar Hill. You would think there would be some kind of mention of this was a tragedy that happened in our town. That's unthinkable. And maybe somebody or somewhere can learn from this experience, because we certainly have trouble trying to quantify what happened here. But there's nothing to those children. There's no remembrance. There's not a plaque on the wall. [00:46:44] Speaker A: There's not nothing in the museum. [00:46:46] Speaker B: Nothing in the museum, nothing in recent papers. The only thing we have as late as 2011 is the mention of the Smith children's names in the obit of Oliver's when he died. Oh. [00:47:05] Speaker A: That'S upsetting, right? Yeah. Because the assumption is that they only matter because the. Of the fact that he murdered them. [00:47:20] Speaker B: Not only that, not Only that this is really going to make you sick. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Don't say it then. [00:47:27] Speaker B: I have to. I have to. Go ahead. There are examples or testimony as to who these children were. The testimony that you can find about the children's personalities. Barbara, Stanley, Gladys, Janet. Is from the 1972 article out of the Detroit Free Press where Oliver himself discusses who these children were as people and who they were to him and how he is haunted by the fact that he killed them. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Stop. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Doesn't that hurt? That like. I just want to burn it. I just want to burn it. [00:48:13] Speaker A: Okay, so I think it's obvious who our voiceless are. Who? [00:48:19] Speaker B: Huh? [00:48:20] Speaker A: Barbara Smith, age 16, Stanley Smith, age 14, Gladys Smith, age 12 and Janet Smith, age 2. Yeah. So I think it is a hard one. And just to. To summarize, they still need a voice. Not because of the facts of their murders were unknown. We know what happened. We know the facts. But their memory, what happened to them was. Was never fully integrated into the memory of the community, into the language, into the meaning of. Of Imlay City. Do you know what I mean? [00:49:06] Speaker B: I know exactly what you mean. [00:49:08] Speaker A: Never spoken through emotionally or culturally. Yeah. [00:49:17] Speaker B: Do you want to go to our hits? [00:49:18] Speaker A: Yeah, let's talk about our hits. Tell me about Willy Wonka, because I have a thought about that particular reference. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Tell me your thought first. [00:49:27] Speaker A: I was thinking, in Willy Wonka, it is a story about mostly bad children. Children who are making bad decisions. Wow. Right? Like that's Willy Wonka's whole thing. Yeah, like they're all bad. So I thought that Willy Wonka in particular is referencing, you know, children who do bad things, who make bad decisions. Is that not what you were thinking? [00:49:56] Speaker B: No, I was thinking. I was thinking of how happy the girls were and Stanley were that day because they. They went to play in the outdoors. There was their kingdom. They were picking wildflowers. The girls were. Stanley was sitting there waiting for frogs to catch. It just seemed like kids in candy stores. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Ed's feeling that children were the voiceless 100. Right. And he was right. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Psychic. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Not creepy kids. [00:50:24] Speaker B: They were not creepy kids. They were good kids. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Mid century was right on. It was almost exactly mid century. This happened in 1947. The countryside, obviously. The murders happened in the countryside. Ed's lavender fields. I think that's more of a breadcrumb, don't you? Leading us. Is there more? [00:50:47] Speaker B: There is. When I went the wrong way, when I was asking my Spideys to take me to the cemetery, I started on the path towards Sugar Hill. If I would have kept Going that direction, past the lavender farm, we would have ended up on the road to Sugar Hill. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:51:08] Speaker B: But instead, I stopped and I redirected to the cemetery. [00:51:11] Speaker A: To the cemetery? [00:51:12] Speaker B: Wow. [00:51:12] Speaker A: That's insane. The thing about us, though, is we would never would have even known that we were at Sugar Hill. [00:51:18] Speaker B: No. We would have went on a dead end street and we would have been all angry. Where are we? Exactly. Exactly. [00:51:24] Speaker A: The fact that I was picking up on family names is funny because Stanley is our grandfather's name, Janet is our aunt's name, and Barbara is our cousin's name. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Yep. [00:51:37] Speaker A: So a lot of family names in this one. [00:51:39] Speaker B: And Gladys technically is our grandmother's name from our father being Elvis. Right. So you know all of us is our daddy. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Not really. Yeah. But he did raise us from the vc. [00:51:53] Speaker B: He did raise us. [00:51:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:51:55] Speaker B: I know a lot about Gladys. [00:51:56] Speaker A: Okay. Yes, Me too. I'm still astounded that you picked up on the county fair vibes in Charlotte's Web. That's crazy. [00:52:06] Speaker B: It's crazy because it's exactly what the papers describe is exactly Charlotte's Web. That's why that's so crazy. [00:52:13] Speaker A: And when you talk about what we were doing in town. We were doing kid things. [00:52:19] Speaker B: We were doing kid things. [00:52:20] Speaker A: And the fact that we ate ice cream, that's. I know what Oliver ate that day before leaving. That is crazy because we ate ice. [00:52:30] Speaker B: Cream too, before we left. Not only that. Wow. I didn't. I didn't put this in the hits just because I was like, we have a lot of hits here. But do you remember when we were playing at, like, at this. Trying to get in the old churches? [00:52:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:50] Speaker B: Well, one of the churches that we were trying to get into, and I wasn't exactly sure which one, because there was multiples, was where the children were laid to rest, was where the priests came from to take them. [00:53:02] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:53:02] Speaker B: To, like, have service. [00:53:03] Speaker A: And we were drawn to the churches. [00:53:06] Speaker B: Yeah. We were walking around. We were. We were trying to break into every church we came across. [00:53:10] Speaker A: That is a true statement. Sociopath. You hit the nail on the head there. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Checks that. Checks every box. [00:53:19] Speaker A: Old school park. Again. I really think that that reference is just to children going to and from school. Don't you, Jill? [00:53:28] Speaker B: Not only that. Let me spill some tea for you. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Oh, there's more. [00:53:34] Speaker B: So Barbara was in the same grade as Oliver. Oliver dropped out of school. And it was said that Oliver had a crush on her. And Oliver talked about how he was never going back to school. He was never going through those Doors again. They were talking about it in his confession. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's crazy. So I have to ask you, Jill, Imlay Township Cemetery, we all felt that the voiceless are buried there. Are the children buried there? [00:54:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:54:10] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. That is insane. Wow. So I just want to take a minute. This was a hard one. I'm sure this was a hard one to research, Jill. Thank you for doing that. [00:54:26] Speaker B: This was. You know, we do this work, and I am. This is not a pity party for us. But this story has been with me since August. And every time we talked about it, we just kept saying, this is a hard one. Yeah, this is a hard one. [00:54:42] Speaker A: We put it off because it's emotionally heavy. But I personally. And tell me if you agree or not. I personally believe that just by speaking their names, Barbara, Stanley, Gladys, Janet. Speaking their names without judgment, without embellishment is a way to honor these lives. [00:55:11] Speaker B: I agree with you a hundred percent. [00:55:13] Speaker A: Just remembering that they lived, that they did what children do, that they went to school, that they played, that they had joy, that they probably got into trouble, that they had chores. They lived. They lived and they matter. [00:55:29] Speaker B: They do matter. [00:55:31] Speaker A: And to anyone listening who might carry their own grief, their own family stories, their own unanswered questions from the past, know this darkness. I'm gonna cry. Darkness never has the final word. Awareness brings light. Compassion brings healing and remembering with love. Remembering with love keeps the human spirit from being lost to time. And that's why we do this. [00:56:06] Speaker B: So that was really beautiful. I'm sorry that you're a crybaby right now. Stop it. Stop it. Crybaby. Are you all right? [00:56:14] Speaker A: You suck. Yes, I'm fine. Do we have any community announcements? [00:56:20] Speaker B: We do. Okay, you guys, can I just say that we have the best people listening? This is ridiculous. We. You guys are ridiculous. You guys are actually listening to us and sending us emails and responding to our ass. So please continue to reach out about mentorship one on one with Jennifer or to join her class at the end of January 2026. We are so excited to interact with you and we appreciate all the time and you put into listening to us and engaging with us. And as always, I am giving readings. So reach out to Jennifer and I at Common Mystics. Gmail.com. jennifer. [00:57:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:57:03] Speaker B: We have a review to read. [00:57:06] Speaker A: We do. We have a new review. We're up to 212 on Apple. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Here is the latest written review from Bright Rose Creations. Title. Love this show. Five stars. I have listened to every single episode of this podcast and eagerly await for each new one to drop. I love the banter between the sisters and how they are so different in personality but weave together so seamlessly. I love learning. I love. [00:57:41] Speaker B: I love that she thinks that. Thank you. [00:57:47] Speaker A: I love learning about the stories of the voiceless. It's so interesting, charming. Even when it's scary and dark, they can bring the light. Love you too. Oh, we love you. Thank you, Bright Rose Creations. And thank you. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Creations. What a beautiful name too. Thank you so much. [00:58:04] Speaker A: Yes. So please, if you haven't, please leave us a five star review. Click the stars. You don't have to write something, but if you do, we would love to read it. Anything else? [00:58:16] Speaker B: Let me think. Please. New Year. Take care of yourselves. Self care is important with everything happening in the world. We love you. Bring us along when you're on your walks or. Or taking a long drive just to relax. But if you can, it's free to do so. Please share us with your friends and your family and let them know that you're enjoying our show and that we're silly. But we're silly for a reason, because we're sisters and we're bringing you content with history and we are trying to grow. So please do so. It's free. It's free to do so. But if you have extra change, please sign up on our Patreon pages. We have four different tiers. You can just support us. You can get extra content. You can be a fourth tier member where we just show up at your house and kidnap you. We do that now. That's what we do. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Apparently, that's what we do. So watch out. [00:59:10] Speaker B: Giselle, we're coming. Oh, yeah. [00:59:13] Speaker A: We have a list. We have a list of people that we're going to just share. [00:59:16] Speaker B: Sharon. She's close. Oh, my gosh. Okay. [00:59:22] Speaker A: All right. Thanks, Jill. Love you. [00:59:24] Speaker B: Love you. Love you guys. [00:59:25] Speaker A: Love you. Thank you for listening. Bye. Bye. [00:59:28] Speaker B: This has been a common Mystics Media Production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.