132: The Shame of Madison County, AL

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, guys, it's Jill. Jen and I wanted to give you. [00:00:03] Speaker B: A heads up about the content on today's episode. [00:00:05] Speaker A: It may be triggering for more sensitive audiences. Refer to the show notes for more. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Specifics, and take care while you listen. [00:00:22] Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we uncover a mysterious, mysterious illness that ravaged an entire Southern family in 1897 and the shameful acts that followed. I'm Jennifer James. [00:00:37] Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley. [00:00:38] Speaker A: We're psychics. [00:00:39] Speaker B: We're sisters. [00:00:41] Speaker A: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. And today's story comes to you from Madison County, Alabama. [00:00:51] Speaker B: That's right, Jennifer. And you know what's in Madison County? [00:00:55] Speaker A: What's in Madison County? [00:00:57] Speaker B: Huntsville. [00:00:58] Speaker A: Oh, Huntsville, love. Huntsville. That's where Tallulah was born. [00:01:02] Speaker B: It's true. And we were just about, like, less than nine miles away from this story, so I'm glad that we found it, and I'm excited to go over the outline with you. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Okay, take us through the beginnings. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Well, you know we loved Huntsville, right? [00:01:21] Speaker A: We did love Huntsville. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Like, for sure. Like. Like we were looking at real estate. We're looking up things on Zillow. Like, we want to move there, and we sensed ghost everywhere. There is not an area of that city and its surrounding locations that is not haunted. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Jill, can we talk a little bit about the ghosts of Huntsville on our Detours? Oh, wonderful. Meet us at Detours on Patreon. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Yes. Now, the thing is, Jen, I lost my train of thought because you interrupted me. [00:01:57] Speaker A: I'm so sorry. You were talking about Huntsville. We loved Huntsville. We felt the ghosts, the spirits in Huntsville everywhere. Everywhere. [00:02:07] Speaker B: There is, like, not an inch of that city that is not haunted as fuck. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it's one of those places where the entire environment, like, you walk in and you feel. Feel the energy of the place. It's that really. [00:02:21] Speaker B: It's really special. That's what I was just gonna say. It's seriously special. So let's remind everyone what our intention is. When we're in the road together and we're driving around or we're walking around and we're having a classic mess around. [00:02:34] Speaker A: What is our intention? Our intention is, and it was that day as well, to ask the spirits to lead us to a verifiable story previously unknown to us that allows us to give voice to the voiceless spirits. Jill. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Absolutely right, Jennifer. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Absolutely right. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Now, do you remember feeling sick? [00:02:57] Speaker A: No, I don't remember feeling sick. [00:02:59] Speaker B: I remember you telling me you were feeling sick. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Interesting. I don't remember now, but you know what? That's not unusual because when you're getting information from speaker spirit, it, like, bypasses your logical brain and you just experience it. [00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Huh. Interesting. [00:03:16] Speaker B: And you were picking up, as you know, on politicians and governors, you're like, damn, there's a lot of governor situation. And again, we were drawn to the courthouse. Remember, walking around the courthouse and you. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Were sensing what a woman on a plantation. A Southern woman. [00:03:34] Speaker B: A Southern woman. Not a Northern woman, but a Southern woman. [00:03:38] Speaker A: Yeah. On a plantation. [00:03:40] Speaker B: I was hearing horses and crowds moving throughout the streets. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Cool. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah. That is really a cool feeling. It really feels like you're in the history in the time and place. [00:03:52] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah. And again, that female energy kept coming up, and it felt like more than one woman. It felt like women, Southern women were coming through. [00:04:05] Speaker B: It felt like there was a struggle adjusting to life after the Civil War. And I just want to say from doing these previous episodes, this area, it really is charged with reconstruction energy. Like, more so than the war. Like, it's after the war that we seem to be really picking up on, like, reconstruction stories. Like, they're traumatized by. By Reconstruction and losing that war for real. Did you notice that, like, every one of our stories is just after the war? [00:04:45] Speaker A: Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. [00:04:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really interesting. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker B: And Huntsville is the kind of place, like I said it was. It's really haunted, but it invokes history. Like, you feel like you're walking in history there. It really is a special place. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah. That's one of the reasons why we loved it so much, because of all that energy. Yeah. [00:05:08] Speaker B: And this is like our third story from Huntsville. So seriously, like, this is a great location, maybe a future retreat location. [00:05:16] Speaker A: I would love that. [00:05:18] Speaker B: So let's get into it. Tell me about the incident that we discovered in our research process. [00:05:23] Speaker A: All right. Well, the incident occurred in the spring of 1897 at the home of a prosperous local farmer named Joshua Kelly. Joshua Kelly then lived in a town named Jeff, Alabama. Now the area is a part of Huntsville. But back then, it was just about nine miles from the city of Huntsville from its. Its historic boundary. And it had been a tough winter in Jeff, Alabama, in Madison County. And Joshua Kelly and his friends and his family were around him, making most of the weather that March. So they were celebrating the coming of spring and how important it was, particularly that year, because of the hard winter. So they were having a get together. Now on the 6th of March, they sat down together with dinner with friends and the family, and it was a really Pleasant affair. It was a good time. Joshua Kelly and his wife Sally had a guest who managed the family store. So the family owned a store in town. They were. They were prosperous. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Like, honestly, this family, like, created this town with their wealth. Like, the town sprung up around their anchorage and their plantation. [00:07:03] Speaker A: And so they had friends and, you know, employees over for dinner, people who managed the store. And as the dinner plates were getting cleared away, a few of the remaining guests stayed seated at the table for some. After dinner, coffee and probably dessert was served. [00:07:26] Speaker B: I would stay. I would stay at the table. [00:07:27] Speaker A: That is my favorite part of dinner. Like the. Like the coffee afterwards. Like whenever you're at a wedding. Whenever I am at a wedding or at like a multi course dinner, my favorite part is the coffee and dessert at the end. [00:07:43] Speaker B: I can totally see that. [00:07:46] Speaker A: That's what I live for. [00:07:47] Speaker B: It seems very French of you. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Oui, oui. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Mm. [00:07:53] Speaker A: So they were sitting around, they were probably full. They enjoyed a good time. The coffee comes out, the dessert. And suddenly, very unexpectedly, Joshua Kelly rose from the table and started spasming violently. [00:08:14] Speaker B: I've done that. You've seen me do that. And I have to throw myself on the ground to make my stomach stop spasming. [00:08:21] Speaker A: I wish you were kidding. But you guys, it's very embarrassing when you're in public with Jill and she has a stomach cramp because she will go down on the ground no matter where we are. [00:08:32] Speaker B: No matter where we are. No matter where we are. Thrown myself on a bathroom floor in a doctor's office. Like, I. It doesn't matter. I thrown myself on the asphalt of a Wendy's parking lot because it's like your whole body from your abdominal is having a Charlie Horse, and you're like. So you have to just throw yourself down hard. [00:08:53] Speaker A: All right, that's never happened to me, and I bet that's never happened to anyone else before. Who is listening to us. You are legit an alien, but let's continue. So Joshua Kelly has this terrible pain, terrible pain in his chest and his stomach. And he's spasming and he's gasping in pain. And his wife, Mrs. Kelly, is alarmed. She rushes to her husband's side, only to collapse herself moments later with the same agonizing convulsions in her stomach and her chest. But that's not all. A few minutes later, guess what? Their guests, the people that they invited to their home, start gasping for breath, experiencing the same horrible pains tearing apart through their insides. At this time, the household has erupted into chaos. [00:09:49] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone's like, holy shit, everyone's sick. Like, what's happening? Can you imagine that scene? [00:09:55] Speaker A: No. It must have been terrifying. Family members are rushing about to the sides, trying to figure out what's happening. The servants are running around. People are trying to help, but they don't know what to do. They summon the doctor and who. Who hastens to the scene. But before the doctor could arrive, even more fell victim to the excruciating pain tearing through their bodies. Even seven of the black field hands. The. The people who worked on the. The property for the house were struck by the same mysterious affliction, adding to the growing panic. So the doctor arrived finally, and he at once realized the dire situation. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah, he's gonna need a bigger boat. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He. There's nothing he could do. He was one man with only so much medicine. He didn't bring medicine for an entire village full of sick people. He was definitely outnumbered. He was out of his depth. And he called for additional doctors nearby to help. But even with the extra hands, there was little the doctors could do to ease the patient's agony. They worked tirelessly, and a grim consensus emerged among them. They knew that this was no ordinary sickness. This was poisoning. Specifically, arsenic poisoning. [00:11:19] Speaker B: That sounds horrible. And how did everyone get sick? Well, a lot of people get sick on the plantation that day. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker B: And what is arsenic? What is it used for? Why would there be arsenic around the house? [00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really great question. So arsenic is actually a natural occurring element. You can find it in soil, you can find it in water. It's in the air. Yeah, shut up. It's just a naturally occurring element, but it's also a potent toxin. In the 1890s, arsenic had a surprisingly wide range of uses in the modern 1890s home. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Sounds safe. [00:12:08] Speaker A: It was widely used in products like pesticides, insecticides to combat pests in agriculture, but it was also found in other products like. Like green dye that was used for wallpaper, for clothing, even for candy. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Wow, this sounds like the asbestos of the 1800s. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was used in a lot of different things, and the health risks were poorly understood at the time. Additionally, sometimes arsenic was occasionally used in medicine to treat various illnesses like syphilis. And of course, that led to unintentional arsenic poisoning, but. Oh, well, live and learn. [00:12:53] Speaker B: Well, yeah. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Would you. [00:12:55] Speaker B: What would you rather have, syphilis or arsenic poisoning? Probably syphilis. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Its presence was so widespread that accidental or unintentional arsenic poisoning was not uncommon during this period. [00:13:10] Speaker B: So that makes sense how they were able to identify, like, specifically, this is arsenic poisoning. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, they've seen it before. Right, Right. So it might have been. You ate, you know, something in the candy or the wallpaper or the. The insecticide that you have here on the property. [00:13:26] Speaker B: So now what? Everyone's sick. We have the doctors. There's like, aha, this is arsenic. What do they do? [00:13:31] Speaker A: So the doctors work tirelessly to help the patients, and Kelly's family launched into their own investigation that afternoon, looking through the house like. Like, where did this come from? Right. [00:13:43] Speaker B: Mm. [00:13:44] Speaker A: And everybody was questioned by the family, and they questioned people who were on the land, too, because, like I said, they had quote, unquote, servants who were working for them on their land, and their goal was simply to just uncover the source of the arsenic. Like, we know we have arsenic. We have a farm. We use this, you know, in agriculture. So, like, we just need to find out how it crossed. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:12] Speaker A: How did it get into the kitchen or how it got into the plates or. Or into whatever. How did it get to our guests and our family? Right. [00:14:19] Speaker B: And the field hands. Don't forget, the field hands are sick too. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. And it wasn't long before a chilling connection was made. All of the victims that got sick that day had consumed coffee brewed in the same pot. Okay, so there's apparently one pot of coffee that made everybody sick. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Good detective work. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, believing that there was no malicious intent here, the family clung to the hope that it was just a tragic accident. Perhaps Mrs. Kelly had accidentally left rat poison too close to the coffee station. Or maybe the cook had unknowingly contaminated the coffee while using poison to deter mice. [00:15:03] Speaker B: It looked just, like, skinny and sweet. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Right. And I'll also say that there is a problem product that comes. That has come up before in our research recently called Rough on Rats. And apparently, Rough on Rats was a. Obviously a rat poison product that was very popular at the time because the owner was also big on promotion. And so if you look up Rough on Rats, the boxes are super cute. Like, all of the ads for Rough on Rats are adorable, and it's poison, and people, like, put it around their house and especially in the kitchens, because that's where you don't want mice. You don't want mice eating your food. Right. [00:15:44] Speaker B: It is. I encourage everyone to look up Rough on Rats because it really is the cutest advertisement. [00:15:49] Speaker A: It really is. Anyway, so everybody had Rough on Rats. Everybody had a box in their house of Rough on Rats. And you could imagine sprinkling this toxin around your house if you're not careful, you know, it could contaminate anything. So. Yeah. Anyway, regardless, the kitchen was scrubbed, the pots, the cups discarded. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah, they threw that shit out. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, they threw it all out. They scrubbed everything cleaned. So hopefully they could put this tragic accident behind them. Unfortunately, there was a death as a result of this poisoning. And that was the patriarch of the family, Joshua Kelly. His death came swiftly, despite the doctor's best efforts. [00:16:42] Speaker B: It sounds like such an agonizing way to go. Just the spasming and just feeling like your insides being, like, ripped apart or you're, like, dying from the inside out. It's just. Oh, poor guy. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah. In the days that followed, the grief hung heavily over the Kelly household. Friends, neighbors and loved ones gathered in droves to the Kelly's home to pay their respects and offer what comfort they could. Though her husband had passed away, Mrs. Kelly was still dangerously unwell. And the doctors were close by, monitoring her condition even as the mourners were filling her home. So she wasn't out of the woods yet. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:26] Speaker A: Mm. [00:17:27] Speaker B: So people are in the house. They're mingling. They're having. You know, think about it. It's like a wake. There's food that's being presented. People are nibbling. They're discussing the tragic accident that struck this family. And it was like a family, like I said, that was well regarded. That started the town of Jeffs around their plantation. And then Jennifer, then the gathering at the house. [00:17:56] Speaker A: The very wake also turns to terrible chaos. [00:18:02] Speaker B: What happens? [00:18:05] Speaker A: One by one, the guests at the wake begin grasping for air, clutching their chests and collapsing in pain. They're retching. They're holding their insides, their stomachs. It echoed through the house. And again, panic spreads. In mere minutes, 15 people, including two of the attending doctors, fell gravely ill. How did this happen? Once again, the symptoms made it clear. The culprit was unmistakable. It was what, Jill? [00:18:48] Speaker B: Once again, Arsenic poisoning. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Arsenic poisoning. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Question, question. [00:18:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:54] Speaker B: If you were attending the wake. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker B: And you know that this what happened and how everyone got sick. Okay. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Would you eat? Yes. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Would you partake in anything at that wake? [00:19:05] Speaker A: No, probably not. I probably wouldn't even touch anybody. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:08] Speaker A: I'd probably just stand and be like, okay, I gotta go. [00:19:13] Speaker B: Just stand in mad. Like, I don't know if I would ate. Like, yeah, yeah, go on. This is my chubby ass. Like, you know, I say that, but if something really good came out, I don't know. I think I'd partake if I was like, ooh, Twinkie, you know? [00:19:30] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, it's a good point. This time, however, fate was kinder. After a harrowing ordeal, every victim of the poisoning survived. Though the shadow of suspicion and fear now loomed even darker over the household. [00:19:48] Speaker B: Mm. [00:19:49] Speaker A: So, like, what. How could this happen? Two accidental poisonings in a row. What is going on? [00:19:55] Speaker B: And again, like, they scrubbed shit and they threw out pots. So this is. This is getting a little sus. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Right. So now they start asking other questions, like, is there somebody maybe responsible for this? You know what I mean? Like, is somebody doing this intentionally? [00:20:15] Speaker B: I can't imagine. [00:20:17] Speaker A: So this prosperous family, the Kelly's, had a number of servants working for them. Sure. All of them black or African American. And they turn their eyes to the cook, Julia, and they started questioning her. But suspicion quickly faded because she, too, felt violently ill. Yeah. And so they're like, yeah, no, she wouldn't have poisoned herself. Do you know what I mean? If she did it intentionally. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Once again, this kitchen was scrubbed from top to bottom. But still, questions flew in every direction. [00:20:53] Speaker B: They needed to scrub more than just the kitchen. [00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Like, they did that before. That didn't work, so they need to start scrubbing other places. [00:21:01] Speaker A: So when they questioned the cook and they scrubbed the kitchen down, the Kelly family again brushed it off as perhaps it's just another freak accident. [00:21:11] Speaker B: Kelly family. Kelly family. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Although Mrs. Mrs. Kelly actually was starting to think, was somebody trying to kill them deliberately? [00:21:23] Speaker B: That's the most sense. Yeah. Yes. Yes, Mrs. Kelly, that's what it sounds like. Because this can't just happen again and again and again. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:31] Speaker B: And not just you, but the entire community. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:35] Speaker B: I mean, they poisoned guests at the wake. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So Mrs. Kelly kind of took charge here. She rallied her neighbors, and she and the neighbors launched a full blown investigation to uncover the truth. I do believe she reached out to law enforcement as well to kind of look like detective work. [00:21:55] Speaker B: You got it. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Nobody, Nobody was above suspicion here. The servants, all the servants were interrogated. The neighbors even questioned their own staff. You know, like, everybody was questioned. Even people who had visited casually were interrogated. And like, sellers, like people in the community who were selling them food and, you know, selling them products were questioned and scrutinized as well. [00:22:22] Speaker B: That's such a good point. I didn't think of that. [00:22:25] Speaker A: So they were looking at every possible lead to figure out, where is this poison coming from. Good on her, Mrs. Kelly, for. For launching this thorough investigation. [00:22:36] Speaker B: And she wasn't feeling well. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Right. But despite all these efforts, the culprit and their motive remained a mystery. So taking no chances, the Kelly's now started locking all their food away and made sure that someone from the family was always present during meal prep time. In the weeks that followed, gradually, the fear that had gripped the community began to fade and life began to move on. And the poisonings once again were quietly dismissed as just tragic accidents. [00:23:19] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know about all that. [00:23:22] Speaker A: After all, who could believe that someone in their small, tight knit town of Jeff, Alabama, could be capable of such a horrifying act? Like, why would someone purposefully be trying to kill this family and the community? And people in the community, like, just like visitors and workers. Yeah, just. [00:23:45] Speaker B: I mean, that's sociopathic right there. But I would not. I. I honestly would not be like, oh, it's just another accident. Like, there's no way. I would, I would stay far away from the Kelly's. I would get my food elsewhere. Like, for real. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but Jill. Once again, as the community was letting their guard down, as they were letting these terrifying incidents fade into memory, soon the Kellys and the people of Jeff would once again become concerned. On the morning of May 7, 1897. This is two months after the first poisoning. The day dawned like any other. And as the sun rose steadily over the horizon, there was no hint of the horror to come. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:24:44] Speaker A: The field hands gathered in the yard behind the kitchen of the Kelly house for breakfast before heading out for another long, hot day in the fields. Inside the Kelley family home, the family and their three guests sat in the dining room enjoying a hearty breakfast, accompanied by steaming pots of coffee. In the kitchen, the house servants ate together at a separate table. Bullshit. But I know that's what they did back then. Suddenly, shouts erupted from behind the house. One of the field hands had collapsed, convulsing violently on the ground and gasping for breath. More and more of the workers started being struck by unbearable stomach pain, retching and writhing in agony. But it wasn't just the field hands and the food outside. The terror quickly spread into the kitchen, where the house servants began screaming in pain. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Overcome by the same symptoms. The writhing, the retching, the agonizing stomach pain. Within minutes, 14 people, seven white family members and guests and seven servants were violently ill. Okay, again. Again. The cause was unmistakable. Everyone at this point was. Was an expert on identifying the signs of arsenic poisoning. [00:26:25] Speaker B: I think we're experts at identifying the signs of arsonic poisoning. [00:26:28] Speaker A: But this is the thing. [00:26:29] Speaker B: How can this be happening? They're locking up the food. Like they're scrubbing shit. Like how can this keep happening? [00:26:38] Speaker A: Well, that's what they asked. And an investigation went underway, and all attention focused on the coffee again as the likely culprit. But the theory fell apart when they discovered that David Kelly, who hadn't touched his coffee, was just as sick as everyone else. So this time, it wasn't the coffee. Again, suspicion turned to the cook, Julia. But she, too, was still gravely ill. And so she was quickly ruled out as the source of the problem. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Like she was. If she did it, then she poisoned herself, too. [00:27:07] Speaker A: Exactly. Which wouldn't make any sense. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:10] Speaker A: As the doctor examined the patients, his attention shifted to two servants, Mandy and Molly. Both claimed to have the same symptoms as everybody else, but it was really clear to the doctor that they were faking their illnesses. They were saying that they were really sick, but they weren't really sick. The doctor could tell. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Well, that's suspicious. [00:27:35] Speaker A: Right? And after some questioning, they found out that both Mandy and Molly had been working in the kitchen that day. When the doctor shared his suspicions with the family, they decided to keep this information private for the time being, while closely observing every move that the two servants made. Meanwhile, Mrs. Kelly collected samples of everything served for breakfast and sent them to the town for testing. [00:28:08] Speaker B: That's smart. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Other family members began a meticulous search of the kitchen, examining every corner and crevice for clues. Their efforts did pay off when a breakthrough came. [00:28:21] Speaker B: What happened? [00:28:22] Speaker A: Test results on the food samples were in, confirming their worst nightmare. The flour used to bake the biscuits had been poisoned. The flour had been laced with arsenic in such high amounts that it actually had turned the flower brown. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:28:42] Speaker A: The toxin was potent enough to be lethal. And had the same quantity been added to the coffee, the entire family likely would not have survived. But ironically, Jill. Ironically, it was this excessive amount of arsenic that saved them because it caused the violent vomiting that purged the poison from their bodies. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Jesus. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Now the family is learning all this. They're keeping their eye on the two servants, Mandy and Molly. And then suddenly, Molly disappears. [00:29:15] Speaker B: Where does she go? [00:29:16] Speaker A: What did she do? [00:29:17] Speaker B: Oh, Molly. That doesn't look good. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Uh huh. She slipped out of the house before anyone could confront her and basically went on the run. [00:29:27] Speaker B: Girl. [00:29:28] Speaker A: But she didn't get far, because, remember, the whole community has been investigating this, Right? [00:29:34] Speaker B: Mm. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Armed men tracked her down near the Tennessee border later that night and hauled her back. Despite relentless accusations, Molly stood firm and denied everything. She claimed she didn't know anything about the poison. [00:29:51] Speaker B: Then why did she leave? [00:29:53] Speaker A: Mm. Exactly. That's what that's what their point was? Why did you leave then? [00:29:58] Speaker B: Well, if. You know, honestly, if I were Molly, I would be like. I wouldn't. I don't know what's going on. I don't want to stay here and eat their food and, like, you know what I mean? [00:30:06] Speaker A: I know, but then you would resign. Then you would go to Mrs. Kelly and say, I'm going to have to resign. Right. You don't just slip out in the middle of the night. [00:30:16] Speaker B: That's a really good point. Get a letter of recommendation. Yes. [00:30:20] Speaker A: Because you don't want to be without. Without some way to make a living. Anyway, back at the Kelly plantation, another servant, Mandy, was also under scrutiny, because, remember, Mandy was the other servant who pretended to be sick, and the doctor knew she was lying about it. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:35] Speaker A: When Mandy saw Molly in custody, however, she crumbled. And she gave a confession. Shut up. She confessed that Molly masterminded the poisoning, so she confessed that it was the other person who didn't. [00:30:54] Speaker B: It. [00:30:54] Speaker A: It was his idea. It was his idea. She confessed that Molly had masterminded the poisoning, starting with the coffee on the first day. And that second poisoning, she had put it in the sausage served at Mr. Kelly's wake. Back when people made their own sausage. That's gotta be the grossest thing to make. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Ew. Yeah, 100%. [00:31:18] Speaker A: Anyway, have you seen it? Our grandmother used to make sausage because she used to have a sausage thing. [00:31:25] Speaker B: Oh, it's. It's the filling of the skin that's the nastiest thing to envision. But, dude, I. I cannot even believe that she was mixing it in with the sausage and, like, the flour and the biscuits. Like, that's kind of ingenious. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Like, they weren't just sprinkling it in the one thing. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah, right. They were, like, diversifying the portfolio. [00:31:51] Speaker A: But not only did Mandy say that Molly was the mastermind, she also said that. That she herself had been the one to lace the flower with the arsenic. So she admitted to doing the flower one. She did it. When she moved it from the locked cupboard to the kitchen. Her admission sealed the fates of both Mandy and Molly. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Well, I mean, they were. Yeah. Would you confess? [00:32:24] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, because she knew that Molly was. That Molly was found out. [00:32:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And she was probably confessing to get a lenient sentence at that point. [00:32:38] Speaker A: So the community, now certain of their guilt, locked both women in the basement of the Kelly store as news of their capture spread like wildfire. Okay, so this is bad. This is bad. [00:32:55] Speaker B: This is a trigger warning bad. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Well, I would say, yeah. I mean, we need a trigger warning at the beginning. But this is where it gets bad, because this community is now going to lose their minds because now they, like, for months, they've been looking for, why is this happening? [00:33:11] Speaker B: You know, to be completely honest, they were kind of dumb asses. Like, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, like that. Come on. [00:33:24] Speaker A: And that's probably one of the reasons they were all so mad, right? [00:33:28] Speaker B: That's a really good point. [00:33:30] Speaker A: So by nightfall, the entire county. The entire county was buzzing with the scandal. Groups of men gathered together, debating whether or not these women should stand a trial or face swift, mob style justice. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Oh. [00:33:53] Speaker A: The sheriff was conspicuously absent, leaving the manor in the hands of the restless and furious locals. By midnight, emotions had boiled over and a mob formed. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Mobs are never good. It's never good when a mob forms. [00:34:12] Speaker A: The mob stormed the Kelly store where the women were locked up in the basement. They dragged Mandy and Molly out of the store and marched them to a lonely wooded area at the intersection of Mondrovia and Jeff Rhodes. Rain fell cold and steady as they prepared to deliver their grim form of justice. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:34:43] Speaker A: The women were given one last chance to speak. Mandy broke down, confessing again and again and begging for mercy. Molly, however, stayed silent the whole time and refused to acknowledge the accusations. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Molly's kind of like a sociopath. To the extreme for sure. [00:35:04] Speaker A: The mob didn't care whether Molly confessed or not. They did the deed. And by morning, the mailman passing through the area found their two bodies swaying in the misty dawn. [00:35:21] Speaker B: That's really, really harsh. Yeah, like I know. Yeah. I just don't condone that. [00:35:32] Speaker A: No matter what they did, you can't condone that. [00:35:35] Speaker B: I'm taking a hard stand on no lynchings. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Even after the murder of Mandy and Molly, whispers spread that they hadn't acted alone. So now they start questioning other servants like Jenny Burwell. Jenny Burwell, Kelly's servant, admitted that she knew about the plot, but claimed that she had kept quiet. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Jenny, you should have been like, no. [00:35:59] Speaker A: You should have spoken up. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:36:02] Speaker A: She was given three days to leave the county, so she hightailed it out of there. Suspicion also fell on a field hand named Jim Nance. He fled so suddenly that he left his plow in the field, just ran off. With at least three and possibly more people implicated. Many suspected the conspiracy ran deeper than anyone realized. The full truth, though, well, that was never uncovered. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Okay, I have a question. [00:36:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Why? Why would they do this? What Is the motive? [00:36:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that was the lingering question. Why would Molly or anyone else go to such horrifying lengths again and again? The only theory offered was that Molly supposedly hated the Kelly family, But that seems like a flimsy explanation for such a violent act. And she was just poisoning people indiscriminately. She poisoned other servants. She poisoned guests to the Kelly house. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah, she had a hatred for, like, everybody. [00:37:10] Speaker A: If that were it. [00:37:13] Speaker B: What could her motive have been? [00:37:16] Speaker A: Well, we have to look at the time, Jill. And it was a time during the Reconstruction era of 1890, in the Huntsville, Alabama, era, Madison County, Alabama. And during this time, feelings among free black people toward their former slave owners were understandably complex and deeply personal, as you can imagine, right? [00:37:45] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Of course. [00:37:46] Speaker B: To be completely honest, I cannot imagine. [00:37:49] Speaker A: No, yeah, that's a good point. Many harbored feelings of anger and resentment rooted in the years of brutality and dehumanization that they endured under slavery. At the same time, there was also fear and caution, as former slave owners often worked to undermine the freedoms of the newly emancipated people through systematic oppression, like the black codes and exploitative labor practices. You know, however, some free black people chose to focus on building their own communities and their livelihoods and viewing their former oppressors with indifference or as obstacles to be overcome rather than forces to be reckoned with or retaliate against. Yes. Retaliate against. So it was complicated. There was. It was a period of mixed hope, determination, lingering mistrust as freedom sought to carve out lives of dignity in a society that was slow to relinquish the vestiges of slavery. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Oh, my God. So I can see that there would be lingering suspicion on both sides, like, people being like, I'm a victim of systematic oppression, and then other people being like, these people are gonna come after me because I was such a son of a bitch. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Right? [00:39:20] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Sheesh. [00:39:24] Speaker B: Complex, yo. So what about Joshua Kelly? Why was he just that hated? Tell me about him. Tell me, like, was he a son of a. You know what I mean? [00:39:35] Speaker A: Well, Joshua Kelly, or Major Kelly, purchased his land, his 600 acres about 14 miles west of Huntsville in 1853. Okay, that was a long time before the settlement was established. Before long, the Kelly family had established a thriving plantation, and he owned numerous enslaved individuals who labored in his cotton fields and in his household. [00:40:09] Speaker B: So. [00:40:12] Speaker A: As their wealth grew, the Kelly's expanded their operations, and the family opened a store, a cotton gin, and a blacksmith shop. [00:40:21] Speaker B: Geez. [00:40:23] Speaker A: So they were really pivotal in Establishing the town. When the Civil War came, it brought significant challenges to the family and Major Kelly. Joshua Kelly enlisted in the Confederate army even though he was in his 40s. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Wow, that's old. [00:40:42] Speaker A: He earned his rank and fought in many of the war's bloodiest campaigns. I was looking at the different battles he was in, and he's in some of the biggest ones. Some of the biggest and bloodiest ones, like, I believe Chancellorsville was one on the list. Meanwhile, Sally, his wife, faced immense difficulties managing the plantation during the war amidst increasing hardships. There was no market for their cotton, and Federal troops were occupying their home, putting the family under considerable strain. And not only that, that would suck. Not only that. Mrs. Kelly was very, very vocal about her hatred for the Yankees. [00:41:24] Speaker B: I could imagine. [00:41:25] Speaker A: So they made her especially uncomfortable. [00:41:29] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Yeah. When the war ended, Major Joshua Kelly returned to a devastated South. Much of Madison County, Alabama, was left in ruins. And in the wake of emancipation, Kelly freed his slaves. Well, really, he had no choice. But Kelly freed his. His slaves and in many cases, offered them money or land to help them start their new lives. [00:41:56] Speaker B: So was he a good man? [00:41:58] Speaker A: He was a good man. By all accounts. He was, of course, a veteran. I read an article out of the True Tales of Old Madison County, a publication that goes back to tell the early history of Madison county. And there was a quote about him saying that Joshua Kelly was a tender hearted man, a friend to the needy, discounting bills to widows and handing out food to the poor. So he really was a quote, unquote, good man for his time. I mean, he did free his slaves when he had to. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:38] Speaker A: A great man. A great man would have freed his slaves when he didn't have to. True. But he didn't do that. He waited till after the war. He didn't have to give the money. He didn't have to help them. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Right. That's. That's what I was. [00:42:54] Speaker A: So that does say something about his character. But his contributions to society brought into existence the very village of Jeff. [00:43:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:04] Speaker A: Like his family established he was. He and his family, they were the community. They were the. The lint. Like the hub. They had started it. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Why did they call it Jeff? [00:43:17] Speaker A: They call the town Jeff, after Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Wow. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Yeah, so. But it was shortened to Jeff. [00:43:29] Speaker B: I can see he didn't want to live. Jefferson Davis. But I don't know if. If I founded a town, I would name it after myself. Jill Ville. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Okay, so, Jill, who do you think the voiceless is here? Because I have Thoughts. [00:43:46] Speaker B: I want to hear your thoughts. [00:43:47] Speaker A: No, I want to hear your thoughts. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Well, I feel like Molly and Mandy could be our voiceless because I believe they would have faced death regardless. I don't think they would have. I don't think it was necessary to lynch them. [00:44:03] Speaker A: 100%. 100%. It's hard. It's hard to have empathy for Molly and Mandy because they were poisoning people. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:16] Speaker A: It's impossible for me to put myself in my situ. In their situation. So I know that I. I'm truly. I can't be empathetic in this situation, and I know that that's kind of flawed, but you're right. They didn't. They didn't have justice. They should have been given what they were entitled to by law. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:38] Speaker A: And that was taken from them. [00:44:40] Speaker B: I will tell you that. Molly does seem cold, though, yo. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Like, she not right. [00:44:46] Speaker B: Like, she. She. She not right. [00:44:48] Speaker A: She's not right. [00:44:49] Speaker B: She ain't playing with the full deck. I think Mandy was probably, like, just eat, like, gullible and easy to manipulate, but. [00:45:00] Speaker A: Yeah, and. And, like, probably resentful and probably, like, her life probably sucked, you know, having to wait on rich people. Do you know what I mean? Like. Yeah, see? But. But indiscriminately trying to kill people, like, anybody who happened to drink out of a pot. Really? Like, that's. Or that's your plan? Yeah. Or the biscuits. Right, Right. [00:45:25] Speaker B: I have. I especially take issue with the biscuits because I'm a biscuit eater. I love bread. She would have got me good. She would have got me good. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Tell me about. You put a lot of information in this. In this outline about lynching and what that meant. Do you want to discuss that now or. [00:45:45] Speaker B: No, Jennifer, I am going to take your instincts into account, and I think we all know what lynching means. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah, Right. Right. [00:45:55] Speaker B: And I think that this is a textbook definition of a lynching like this. The mob came together and took a form of justice in their own hands, and that was unnecessary. And it created the lack of opportunity for these people to have the right of a trial. And, you know, they would have got convicted anyway. It wasn't like they're in a sympathetic part of the world. Right. [00:46:23] Speaker A: So it was unnecessary, 100%. And it was completely illegal. It was illegal for the mob to do this. [00:46:31] Speaker B: Mm. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Now, the newspapers at the time are mixed. I saw some. I saw. Well, first of all, the names of the people in the mob who did this were never published. [00:46:49] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:46:50] Speaker A: It's. It. I mean, that doesn't surprise me, does that surprise you? So they were all unknown. [00:46:55] Speaker B: It is a crime. It is a crime. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:58] Speaker B: It seems like there should have been an investigation into the crime of the lynching, in my opinion. [00:47:03] Speaker A: It seems to me like the people in power, who were the editors, who were the writers, who were the, the power players in this entire community in the county, were some of the people who were probably behind it. And therefore the newspapers were not going to out them. But there was another source, the journal Huntsville Alabama, out of Huntsville, Alabama, wrote a scathing article about, quote, the shame that this brought to the county. And the title, the article, yeah, the title of the article is Murdered Madison County Shame. Two women hanged by a mob. And it goes into saying, what are we if we are not law abiding citizens? There was literally no reason for this. And what you did was, was murder. You committed murder. [00:47:58] Speaker B: And you're no better than the thing that you were acting out against. [00:48:03] Speaker A: Right. So I'm glad that that perspective was, was given and that is true. Again, I don't have much sympathy for Molly and Mandy and I really, I think they were coming through to me. But there's another female figure that I think really deserves a voice here that is not Mandy or Molly. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Really? [00:48:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Speak to me. [00:48:27] Speaker A: I think Sally Kelly, the wife of Joshua Kelly, needs a voice here. I will, I will tell you why right after the first poisoning In March of 1897, the first time, remember they thought it was a tragic accident. It was all over the local papers. That, and I'm going to read to you now from the Guntersville Democrat, Thursday, March 18, 1897. Page two. Entire family poisoned. A Huntsville special to the Chattanooga News says a little dose of rat poison placed carelessly on a shelf has caused the death of one of the most prominent citizens of Madison county and the probable fatal illness of several of his family. The victim is J. O Kelly, aged 73, of Jeff, Alabama. On the morning of the 6th, Mrs. Kelly placed a dose of rat poison on a shelf in her kitchen. Below the shelf was a container was another box containing coffee. At noon Saturday, everyone who partook of the coffee was taken violently ill. Showing unmistakable symptoms of poisoning. Mr. Kelly lingered until 8 o' clock this morning when he died in great agony. Mrs. Kelly is suffering intensely and may die. She is conscious and is able to see the terrible effect of her thoughtlessness. She was blamed for this accidental poisoning and I believe she believed that she killed her husband accidentally with her. She went months thinking that it was her fault. She was in agony, not only because of the poisoning but because she thought she was responsible. And that is why I think she came through. [00:50:31] Speaker B: I like it. [00:50:33] Speaker A: Do you agree? [00:50:35] Speaker B: I agree. I agree. [00:50:37] Speaker A: How terrible. How terrible. And again, this is all over. This is in the Chattanooga News. This is in the Guntersville News is. This is everywhere. Different communities saw this, and she was blaming herself, and it wasn't her. So. Yeah. So that's why I think. That's why I think the true voiceless is, to be honest, when I feel Joshua Kelly's energy, it feels to me. I hate to say this, but I think his health was already compromised. Yeah, I think that. Yeah, I don't think that he was the healthiest, and I think that he's glad in a way that if someone had to go, it was him, that his family was spared. And Mrs. Kelly lived until the age. I don't know what age she was, but it was until 1915, I believe. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Damn. [00:51:25] Speaker A: So she lived a nice, long life after this. She went on. But I do feel for her because she was blamed publicly and she blamed herself, and it was never her fault. So, anyway, well, thank you for that perspective. [00:51:38] Speaker B: Perspective. I agree with you. You want to go over the hits? [00:51:41] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead. Let's do it quickly. [00:51:43] Speaker B: Feeling sick. [00:51:44] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Well, that's an easy one. [00:51:47] Speaker B: Politicians. [00:51:49] Speaker A: How about the fact that the town they lived in was originally called Jeff after Jefferson Davis? [00:51:54] Speaker B: Yeah, Cray cray. [00:51:55] Speaker A: That's what I thought. Right. [00:51:57] Speaker B: Yes. But also, Major Kelly had some kind of, like, political. Like he was in charge of some kind of money, like the veterans fund, which is a political appointment. But so either way. Either way. Yeah, I mean, all the above. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Either way, to me, the fact that they lived in Jeff named after Jefferson Davis, to me, that's verification that this indeed is our story. [00:52:19] Speaker B: And the courthouse. I think the courthouse is significant because those women didn't get to the courthouse. [00:52:25] Speaker A: Yeah. They never even made it. [00:52:26] Speaker B: Nope. Then who's your woman on the plantation, John? [00:52:29] Speaker A: I believe it is Sally. But then the multiple women coming through, I do believe that Mandy and Molly came through as well. But the primary person, she was the one on the plantation, Sally Kelly. [00:52:42] Speaker B: And hearing horses and crowds moving up and down the streets. They were gathering for their lynching. [00:52:48] Speaker A: Yeah, they were. [00:52:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:52:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker B: So. [00:52:53] Speaker A: And I think your comments about the Reconstruction, the struggles after the Civil War all really bring context to the dynamics of this time period and the story and, you know, this terrible tragedy that happened in Madison county in 1897. [00:53:12] Speaker B: You know, the thing is, like I said in the beginning, it is a shock to me that there's so much vitriol around that period in the South. Like, you would assume that the war itself would have been traumatizing. And we're picking up more on like the wars and the battlefields, which we have. But it seems like the reconstruction was really traumatizing for these people. Not just for the white people, but. [00:53:39] Speaker A: For the black people, for all people. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of energy still lingers around there. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a beautiful place. I'm really excited for you to. For you, Jill, to come up with an outline of some of the. The best Huntsville ghosts. Like, I want to talk about that on Patreon, on our detours. And if you are not familiar with detours, they. We've been doing video. Yeah, video calls and posting the video so that you can see and hear us talk about different topics at tier 2, which is just $5 a month and just $5 a month. Just less than a cup of coffee. Yeah, less than a cup of coffee. [00:54:27] Speaker B: It's true. And everything is like with inflation right now. Go to Starbucks. I dare you. You're paying more than $5. [00:54:33] Speaker A: Can I just thank everybody for. For listening and also thank you for the recent reviews on itunes. I love seeing those numbers go up. We are at 200. Keep them coming. I would love to get into the 2002. So grateful to have that many. And keep them coming. Keep the reviews coming, keep the emails coming, keep asking for readings and letting me know how I can put together psychic development classes for you. I really feel like that is my calling. If you want to learn, reach out. I will work with you to put something together. For anyone who really wants to uncover their own abilities and learn how to use them. [00:55:17] Speaker B: We just have a really good community and I'm just really grateful for the people that are listening. And there are our people. There really are people. [00:55:26] Speaker A: I know. Yeah, I know. We're so. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Thank you guys so much. [00:55:30] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. See you on Patreon. Reach out to us, Jill. Where can people find us? [00:55:36] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness, Jennifer, you don't know. [00:55:39] Speaker A: I like it when you say it. [00:55:41] Speaker B: You can check out our website, commonmystics.net you can email us at commonmysticsmail.com follow us on all the socials. Although I've been really lazy and not going on there lately. I'm really sorry. But you can post your own content too. It doesn't have to always be me. Guys, Common mystics, pod. And thank you. [00:56:01] Speaker A: Thank you again. We love you. Thank you. Love you. See you next time. [00:56:06] Speaker B: Bye. [00:56:06] Speaker A: Bye. [00:56:07] Speaker B: This has been a common mystics media production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.