Episode 5

August 23, 2020


Ep 5: Body Snatchers in Sycamore, IL

Ep 5: Body Snatchers in Sycamore, IL
Common Mystics
Ep 5: Body Snatchers in Sycamore, IL

Aug 23 2020 | 00:41:45


Show Notes

On this episode of Common Mystics Jennifer and Jill use their psychic abilities to trace an infamous 1849 body snatching incident from Sycamore, to St. Charles, to the banks of the Fox River... and back again. Listen in to learn about these crimes against the dead and the aftermath that haunts these Illinois cities to this day. Transcripts of this episode can be found here: Episode 5_ Body Snatchers in Sycamore Transcript  Link not working? Find transcripts to our pods and more at https://commonmystics.net/  Thanks for listening! Support us on Patreon and get exclusive bonus content and monthly video calls with Jen & Jill!!! https://www.patreon.com/commonmystics
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Episode Transcript

Common Mystics Podcast Episode 5: Body Snatchers in Sycamore www.commonmystics.net 00:00:09 On this episode of Common Mystics, we find ourselves on the trail of body snatchers in DeKalb County, Illinois. Who these people were, what they did and what they left in their wake just may surprise you. I'm Jennifer, James, I'm Jill Stanley. We're psychics, we're sisters, and we are Common Mystics. And we are so excited to talk to you about our story today out of Sycamore, Illinois. This is a good one. Let's get right into it. It’s a good one if we don't say so ourselves. So we started in Wheaton, Illinois, Jill. That's right. That's where we set our intention. Can you remind our listeners what our intention is? Yes, absolutely. We wanted to find a verifiable story and we also wanted to give voice to the voiceless, right? So we are in Wheaton, Illinois, and this day is a little different because we have our amazing friend, Jenny B with us who was operating the cameras. 00:01:10 Yes, we're so glad she came with us and it was hysterical because she was silent. She didn't want to interrupt us or distract us in any way. So she was silent in the back seat. Very much our hostage on this, uh, this adventure, but I'm so glad she came with us because she is really the reason that we found our story. It's a good point. Thank you, Jenny. Thanks Jenny. Anyway, we started in Wheaton, Illinois, and Jill, where did we start driving to first? So we were headed west and we were getting different impressions in our heads. What were you feeling? I was feeling three young men is what I was getting in my head. I didn't know why, but three young men and then three horses. I was also feeling the idea of, like, prospectors, you know, like gold prospectors who would, like, to go to California in 1849. 00:02:14 I was feeling that whole gold prospecting vibes. So, like digging for valuables. Yeah. I had the distinct feeling that we were going to be in different locations that day. Like our story just wasn't at one site, we were going to be moving around. Um, which is unusual. Because that's usually not how it happens. Also after we got off, I forgot what road we exited on, but we ended up near St. Charles, Illinois. I was really focused on the Fox River. You were. Yeah. Like you are watching the river, like on your little GPS window on your car, that screen. And you were like, there's the river, there's the river. And as we were going through downtown St. Charles, it was like downtown St. Charles. Right. And you were all like, the river, the river, but we didn't stop at the river, but you were as very focused on the Fox River, which was interesting. 00:03:10 Right. So then we drove, we were driving West on route 64 at that time. And we were headed out and I was feeling, I had the song, um, The Gambler by Kenny Rogers in my head, which to me gives me the impression of, um, like a saloon, like, like men, like playing cards and like the Old West. That's what that song means to me. So like, yeah. Sing a little bit. I don't know if we have the license for me to sing a little bit, to be honest, that's a, that's a nice way out of it. Very clever. But that's the feeling that song, um, invokes in me. So like a saloon hanging out in a bar kind of feeling. And again, I was getting the whole, uh, you know, horses, wagon, prospectors. So we were both picking up on that same general feel, Western vibe, old West, which is weird. 00:04:11 Because we weren't in the West. We were in, like, the prairies of Illinois, just outside of Chicagoland. Right. So we didn't pretend to know why we were getting those impressions at all. No, no. We were like, I don't know, like this isn't the Old West, but that's kinda what I'm seeing. Then we end up in Sycamore and we arrive on the intersection of Main Street and Route 64 and you and I were like, make a right. And as we made a right on Main Street to our left, there's this beautiful home and a series of what looks like historical buildings and we drove past it and I made reference to it. And you were like, well, yeah, turn around. So again, with my safe driving U turns, we headed back to the building. We did, we did. So we drove into the driveway and we saw that there were actually two houses that we knew immediately were connected. 00:05:12 Right? Intuitively the two of us were like, okay, these two houses go together. One was a Queen Anne style mansion. And the other was, it had a sign called the coach house, if I'm not mistaken, I thought it said Carriage House, but we can look that up later, either way. As soon as we drove up the driveway, what we saw immediately there was an emblem on the front of the building that was three horses. Jenny B brought that to our attention. Thank you, Jenny B. So that whole three horses, you know, image that I was having in my head earlier made me, made me think, okay, we're in the right place, for whatever reason. It was a postmark. Was it a postmark? Signpost? 00:06:06 It was a signpost. It wasn't postmarked. It was not postmarked. No. So, um, so we separated, we both got out of the car and we walked around a little bit. Now the mansion was, um, being renovated. It was, uh, it looks like whoever was renovating this mansion left for lunch. The garage door was open. There were tools about. So, not that we were trespassing... Speaker 2 00:06:39 [Excuse me, officer!] But, but the house next door, which I thought was called the coach house/carriage house, whatever, um, that one was for sale. It had been at some point renovated and turned into an office building where it had different office suites. So that one was, um, not being used at the time. I think it was... It was locked. I tried to get in, it was locked. Speaker 2 00:07:09 Both houses were locked. Again. Again, we weren't trespassing, right? I didn't get in. We do not condone... We don't condone trespassing, is my point. Please don't trespass. Have we secured an attorney yet for this? So I think Common Mystics is in the market for legal counsel. If there's any listeners that can help us... Pro bono. 00:07:51 So we are walking around these, the grounds of these two structures, and I am walking around the mansion first. And I feel the impression of my boss, that is what came to my mind. He's a broker. He's a self made man. And he has a lot of diverse business interests. So he's not just into one thing. So that was the energy that I was picking up on. As I was walking around the house. What were you getting? As soon as I got out of the car and started walking towards the mansion, I felt heavy legged, like infirm in some way, like, it was hard for me to walk, to move my legs. And I mentioned it to Jenny at the time, because we were together and you were off on your own. Also, I was drawn to the basement, specifically the basement windows. 00:08:49 Like I was looking down into the basement. Um, I didn't see anything because it was dark, but that's what I was drawn to, down to the ground. I was feeling as if something was hidden there. It was a very hush hush. It was almost as if people were sneaking around. But what was weird about that feeling is that the presence of the family that lived there did not give me creepy feelings at all. Like I felt like the people that lived in that house were good people. And I believe that you and I discussed that we did, we had the same general impression of the family. The family felt like good, upstanding people. And in fact, I had the feeling of an older lady who was like a matriarch figure who is very hospitable and kind of a Southern Belle hostess sort of energy. 00:09:47 And in fact, I heard a whisper in my ear, say “Have some,” you know, like she was passing things out or, you know, encouraging her guests to partake in whatever the repast was. What was interesting is as you were getting that feeling, I also felt like there was a duality about, not the family, but there was a duality in energy that I was feeling on the property as if a public persona was in conflict with what was happening on the property that had the association of that hush, hush feel. I agree. And I had the same feeling that duality there was like the public image. And then there was what really was going on that was more secretive. And we didn't know anything at that point. So we didn't know why. And I know I was thinking it was connected to the family at that point. 00:10:47 So we walked down the street, we were kind of checking out the other historical homes because they were like in a line down this main street. Right. Exactly. And those buildings, um, had some plaques that told a little bit about the history of the structures. And so we read that the Queen Anne style mansion, the one we were describing, was built by Charles Oakes Boynton in the 1880s. And like you said, currently, it was in the process of renovation. So nobody was living there, but then the building, right next door, the coach house, or the carriage house that was, um, that was connected to the mansion and had been converted into office suites. So it was the coach house/carriage house to Charles Boyton's mansion. So we, we think, okay, there's a story here. We don't know, as our process, we don't know what it is, but there is something intriguing about the energy we were picking up from the mansion and the carriage house. 00:11:49 So we were drawn to that duality... like, what's, what's the secret here? What's being hidden? Especially because we had favorable impressions of the family. Exactly. Let's continue. So we think we're done for the day, right? So we're driving out of town at that point, getting back home and we have a discussion and we make a decision about how we're going to get back home. We could have gotten on the expressway and it would have been faster. But for some reason we were like, well, let's take the back roads. So, we plug in Jen's house as our destination, and it takes us via these back roads. Like the longest way we can possibly get home to Jen's house. So we're following navigation. And as we are following those directions, we pass a cemetery that was established in, like, 1839, and it's called Ohio Grove Cemetery. And I'm like, Hey, that looks like a cool old place. And Jen's like, well, yeah,that's pretty old, but we're not stopping. We can't stop at every cemetery, Jill. Right. I did say that. You know what? At that point, listeners, we had been driving around all day. We were tired and I had our, my friend, Jenny B in the back seat hostage and she was quiet all day. 00:13:11 She was so cute. Just sitting back there. Until Jenny B said, you know, we should probably stop at that cemetery. And so of course, then it was two against one. Fine. If Jenny B who's been silent in the back seat all day decides that, you know, we want to stop there, then we should stop, because this is the only time she has said anything this whole trip. Once again, Jill, do your UTURN sound. [She makes a screeching sound.] 00:13:45 We make a UTURN and go back to the Ohio Grove Cemetery. And I am so glad we did. First of all, it is incredibly old, incredibly old, being established in 1839. That's really unusual in this part of the United States to find a cemetery that old. So it's a smaller cemetery in the middle of the cemetery, almost the heart of the cemetery, are the oldest graves. And they were giving me the creepiest vibe ever. The headstones. Jen, I think you described them as playing cards. Yes. You know, like in the Old West movies, when they have, like, the tall thin stones that almost look like playing cards. Right. And because they were so old, they were almost like shuffled around for lack of a better word. Right? So it was super creepy. I'm walking around the cemetery with Bug, the beagle, and Jenny B and Jen are on the other side of the cemetery and I wanted to snap a picture of the Ohio Grove cemetery sign. 00:14:56 And so Bug and I are walking there and I get this really weird vibe, this energy that's so weird that I stopped and I used my cell phone to record my impressions. And as I was standing there, I felt as if there was a gun battle, but it wasn't like an incident. It was something that had happened over a period of time. It felt like it was like days. Not that the battle was taken days, but it felt like it was something had been drawn out and that it ended up being a gun battle. But what's weird about it is that the parties fighting, neither of them felt as if they were criminals. Both sides felt as if they were like upstanding members of the community. So it wasn't as if there was like an outlaw and a sheriff or natives and the white man, it was literally like both sides had legitimate, um, credibility for lack of a better word. Does that make sense? Noble intentions, both sides had noble intentions. And you told me that it felt like something had been brewing. Yes. Good point. You remember now I was picking up on that Old West vibe again, like Old West type of shootout, um, and lawlessness, it felt like lawlessness. So we feel like we have to get JennyB back home to her kids. 00:16:27 We had to return Jenny Be to her family. Now we held her hostage long enough. We headed back to Jen's house, and we concluded our day. So, then we started the research the next day. Well, my computer blew up, so it took a while to get the research down. But this is what's weird. That frustrating feeling when I was doing the research, it happened again. I was focusing on the family and I told my husband, I don't know if there's a story here. I know so much about the Boynton genealogy, it goes all the way back to old England. And there was nothing, nothing suspicious. Every time I thought that something came up, it just turned out that these are really good people and they were generous and they were kind, and they were politically savvy and they were great people and they were diverse. And so it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. And I'm getting worried because I have to deliver a story to Jennifer and she keeps calling me, saying, How's the research going? 00:17:32 And I'm like, it's going. But Jill, you did find some things out about the family that rang true to our impressions when we were at the mansion. So on Main Street in Sycamore, for instance, for instance, the energy that I was feeling, my boss’s... Charles Oaks was listed as a broker. And that's what we do. We're recycling brokers. And so that checked out. He had a good business sense, you know what I mean? Like another similarity with your boss and Charles Boynton was that they both had many diverse interests. He was in real estate. He lended money. He had grocery stores. And he took care of his family. He did, which again is very, just like my boss, right. And that whole Southern Bell archetype that I was feeling... that energy, Mrs. Boynton was very much, uh, a matriarch in the family. 00:18:30 She wasn't from the South, but in terms of being a hostess and having, uh, you know, people over and being a socialite, that was her. The mansion had a ballroom on the third floor and they often had big galas at the mansion. So that really did check out. And I do feel that she connected with me there and she was happy to have me as her guest. I totally agree. So Jen calls me and she's like, Do you want me to help you with the research? And I'm like, no, no, I'm fine. Don't help me with the research. It's like 10: 30 at night. And my hair is pulled out and I have a cup of wine in front of me. And I'm like, no, I'm fine. Leave me alone. Stop calling. You had the bottle in front of you. 00:19:13 And so I said, okay, well, I'm just gonna... you keep looking into the family, see what you find. And I'm just going to start seeing what I can find about the area, about DeKalb County. Is that alright? And I was like, well, whatever Jen, do, whatever. I don't even care. So while I was doing that, I found a really cool resource and it was called Past and Present of DeKalb County by Louis M. Gross. And it was written in 1907. The first thing I did was I searched the document for the Boynton name, just to see what came up. One thing did stand out. Charles Boynton bought his property on Main Street from a Doctor Horacio Page who happened to be the first doctor to settle permanently in Sycamore in 1838 or 1839. And he practiced there until his death. So I thought that was an interesting note. 00:20:14 And I made note of it. Other than that, there was really nothing else about the Boytons. However, I also searched for Ohio Grove Cemetery, and that's when I hit a goldmine. Oh my gosh, because there was an entire section on Resurrectionists. What a resurrectionist? Resurrectionists is a very fancy word for body snatchers. What is a body snatcher? Jill, a body snatcher would be someone who would steal a body usually out of a grave for the purpose of medical research. So body snatching was actually rampant and it was carried on for years in the early days in the county. No arrangements were made with hospitals for subjects of dissection, which would have been needed by doctors and medical institutions for the purpose of study and learning more about diseases and their impact on the human body. So yeah, body snatchers would steal bodies. And, uh, sometimes the people who were doing the thieving were professional thieves. Sometimes they were members of the community looking to make a buck by stealing bodies and selling them to the medical institutions. Sometimes they were medical students and other times they were doctors themselves who are looking to do autopsies, albeit illegally, but to do them for the purpose of improving their knowledge about how to help, um, patients in the future. 00:21:55 So there was a Dr. George Richards who arrived in St. Charles, Illinois in 1849. And he opened the Franklin Medical College in St. Charles. Now, Dr. Richards was a very respectable physician. He was a professor of theory and practice, and he was formerly the president of a medical institution in LaPorte, Indiana. Well, he had a program for young medical students in St. Charles. Now, medical students, like I mentioned before, uh, were often poor, and it was common for them to have to resort to finding their own bodies to participate in these kind of medical, um, learning programs or med school programs. It's so crazy. I just want to take a moment. So the students would have to come up with their own cadavers as if they were like getting a science textbook, just like it was on the list. It was on the list: pencil, eraser, dead body BYOB, bring your own body. 00:23:07 Exactly. Just like that. So it was the spring of 1849 and three men stopped for supper at a local tavern, just outside the town of Sycamore and the owner's daughter overhears these three men talking. And she is sure that they are body snatchers based on their conversation. So she goes, and she tells her dad, the owner. He sneaks out to their wagon and he checks it. And lo and behold, hidden at the bottom of their wagon are tools that would be used by body snatchers. So now he knows that they are indeed in town to snatch up some bodies. He also knows, because it's a small community, exactly who has just died and been buried. And there were two people. One was a German man. He was an immigrant to the area and he did not have any family or friends, sadly. So he would have been one fresh grave in the local cemetery. 00:24:14 Another was a local lady, Mrs. Kenyon. And she had recently been buried nearby. And so they surmised that, uh, those were the two bodies that these body snatchers were in town to snatch up. So in response, the tavern owner, he organizes a group of local men and they arm themselves and they hide nearby the burial ground, hoping to catch these body snatchers. Early in the evening, not long after dark, the three men, the three men who stopped at the tavern, they arrive with a wagon and they're looking for the grave of the German man. As they approach, the posse is waiting in ambush and they're armed with guns, but they also notice that the body snatchers, they're also armed. So now they're in a situation where nobody was looking for a shoot out at night in the graveyard. They just wanted to scare these people off. 00:25:17 But now they have to decide, Oh, what are we going to do? They’re armed too? These aren't like, you know, these aren't cops, these are just local citizens who want to defend the graves of these people. So one of the body snatchers, one of the three goes back to the wagon to get the implements because they find the grave of the German. Just when that happens, one of the posse members who's lying in ambush has a coughing fit. Oh my God, how annoying! So one of them starts coughing and the two body snatchers that are left at the Germans grave, they are alarmed. Now they know that there is a posse there and there's an ambush waiting there. So the two of them turn around, they go back to the wagon, all three of them race into town, okay. The party and ambush, they follow, they get all the way to town and they apprehend these three people. 00:26:13 They turned out to be: One of them was the son of Dr. Richards. Remember Dr. Richards that I told you had a medical practice where he was training young doctors in St. Charles? His son, the younger Dr. Richards, a man named John Rood was another one. And the third man was unknown and wasn't named in the account that I was reading. So they brought them to the local sheriff. But the sheriff said, Hey guys, we don't have enough proof of wrongdoing. We can't hold them. There's no proof of what they were going to do. And they actually didn't commit any time. They're members, the community, like this is a doctor’s son, the doctor that's running the institute to train other doctors. Right? Well, they were from St. Charles. So they were technically in a different community. I think at this point they were in Sycamore, But, but yeah, point taken. These aren't, these aren't criminals, right? 00:27:05 John Rood is a student at the medical facility. Right, in St. Charles. So, because there was no sufficient evidence, they were let go. But after this scare, there were parties that organized themselves to hang out in the cemetery and watch over the grave of Mrs. Kenyon. Well, one morning the friends and family came back to check on the grave and they thought, Oh good. She was safe another night. But then upon closer inspection, they did see that the, uh, the dirt had been disturbed and sure enough, the body snatchers had broken through the coffin and stolen her body. That is devastating for her family, her new husband. Oh, absolutely. Well, news of the crime spread like wildfire and a huge group was organized by her husband and her father. That's right. And they drove to the St. Charles medical facility. Because remember they now knew who those three original grave robbers were. 00:28:15 Right. One was the son of Dr. Richards. One was a medical student, Mr. Rood. And the third we don't know, but they knew at this point, this party in Sycamore knew that they were associated with the medical college in St. Charles. So they stopped and procured a search warrant for the premises in St. Charles, they stopped to get the search warrant. And after they got the search warrant, they traveled back to St. Charles to the doctor. And upon arriving, they recognize the horse, a horse outside of Dr. Richard's home, as the horse belonging to the doctor of Sycamore. So they knew that the doctor knew. 00:29:02 Exactly. And had time to hide any of the evidence. Did they engage with doctors? At that point, they did, they had the search warrant, they got into the institution and they looked around the autopsy room. They did find human remains, but none that would have matched Mrs. Kenyon. So they were forced to turn around and leave. There's nothing else that they can do. They turned around and as they were leaving, Mr. Kenyon found on the flagstone path, a lock of hair that he swore was his wife's. So he turned around and he rushed back in and he begs piteously on his hands and knees for the remains of his wife to be returned to him. And all of his friends and family, the, this mob was around him just so uncomfortable that he was just so unhinged... begging, begging for the remains of his wife. 00:29:59 Dr. Richards made his greatest mistake in that moment. Yeah, he did, because he said, “I have no subjects now, but if you will come again in a few days, I will have a lot of them. And from your way too.” Right. So not only insulting this poor man, Mr. Kenyon, who is begging piteously for his wife's remains, but also all of the other people, because he's saying, yeah, I don't have any buddies now, but wait, I'm going to get more from your way in a couple of days. Terribly rude and insensitive. And guess what? That incited the mob even more. But the mob was dispersed at that point and they left the St. Charles facility. But you can imagine that, uh, they were incensed. I’m incensed! I want to take arms! I want to find Dr. Richards right now! 00:31:01 So a bigger crowd grew from Sycamore and the greater community, up to 300 people gather, right? They were armed with pitchforks and rocks and shotguns, and they return again to Dr. Richard's place. Now Dr. Richards and his students are, like, walled up in his house. Okay. The mob is outside and they are mad and they are armed and they are demanding the body of Mrs. Kenyon. At that point, there is a violent confrontation. Shots are fired. Windows are broken. Mr. Rood is shot twice and mortally wounded. Dr. Richards is shot and also hit in the head with a rock. And it is a big thing. And it came to be known as Richard's Riot. And it happened in downtown St. Charles. Yeah. And that building is still there, as well as the building of the old medical facility. Maybe he shouldn't have been such a Richard. Maybe he shouldn't have been such a Richard. Right. 00:32:19 Anyway, there are differing accounts of what happened next. One account says that Dr. Richards was, um, was so upset about this riot that had happened at his house, that he consulted an attorney and through the attorney and the constable, he delivered the remains of Mrs. Kenyon to the family. And she was found on the banks of the river wrapped up. A different account says that the people of Sycamore who were so upset and so desperate to find the remains of Mrs. Kenyon, that they consulted a famous, psychic medium, or they called them ‘spiritualists’ back then. Her name was Caroline Howard. And she lived, worked in St. Charles. And apparently Caroline Howard told the people who came to her where to find the body of Mrs. Kenyon. And that's how she was found on the banks of the Fox River. So no one is sure how it happened, how she was recovered, but her body was recovered with great sadness, but also celebration. And she had a second funeral and was buried a second time. It was said that Mr. Kenyon buried her just outside his window so that he could watch over her and keep her safe. But in fact she was returned to her original grave that just happened to be located at the Ohio Grove Cemetery. Where we were that day. 00:33:56 Woo! I know, I'm sorry. I, that was a really long story, but I said it would be worth it. Was it worth it? Oh my God, it was so worth it. So let's debrief. Let's bring it together. Okay. So Jill, I was picking up on three men and a wagon. I think those three men were the three body snatchers at the beginning of the Mrs. Kenyon story, for sure. For sure. They had a, and they had a wagon where they had their tools for body snatching. Absolutely. What about the Old West vibe? Totally checks out. The shootout people and with taking the law into their own hands. Totally checks out. Absolutely. What about that feeling of prospectors? I think that the prospectors is a really good metaphor for the body snatchers. Because they're digging in the ground looking for something valuable to them that they can use as currency. Yeah. That's what I think. I love that because we know that spirit talks to us in metaphors. Right. And so they were literally digging in the ground for something valuable. And I just want to say that prospectors and the gold rush, like the Gold Rush in American history happened in 1849, which was the same year that this happened to Mrs. Kenyon. 00:35:13 I did not make that connection... shut up! What, what a rich metaphor, Spirit... like A+ on that one! Are your heavies working overtime? Absolutely. The river, the river, you know, what's weird about that... I was obsessed, but what's weird about the river is that we knew it had something significant, but we didn't know what, and we kept trying to get to the banks of it, but we gave up because we didn't know how. Right. It was very bizarre. So yes, A+ on river because her body was found on the banks of the river, outside of St. Charles, where we were, where we were flirting with the banks. Right. Crazy, crazy. Okay. Ohio Grove Cemetery. Let's get to our impressions there. You felt that there were two groups that were at odds and having a conflict, but that they both had noble intentions. Do you think that checks out? 00:36:09 Oh my God. Yes. Because the body snatchers were trying to enrich their education and trying to... these particular, like, not every bodysnatcher... but these particular body snackers, snackers, body snackers, [that'll be a different episode.] These particular body snatchers were stealing the body in the hopes to enrich their education, to help save people, ultimately to get a better understanding of the human anatomy. Absolutely. These particular ones were not thieves looking to make a quick buck. Exactly. And of course the other group that was the other part of that shootout group was the group that was just defending their loved ones, the remains of their loved ones. So of course that's noble. Okay. So how do we make the connection between Charles Oakes Boyden's home and property on Main Street to Ohio Grove Cemetery? Excellent question, Jill. Well, here's what we know... 00:37:14 We have every reason to believe that the doctor from Sycamore who warned Dr. Richards about the mob arriving with a search warrant that day, we have every reason to believe that he was Dr. Page, the same doctor who lived on the property. That would be Charles Oakes’ property. I have goosebumps. And therefore we know that Dr. Page was supportive of the act of stealing bodies for the purpose of medical research. Oh my God. And it's likely that he would have also participated in this practice. And therefore there may very well be human remains on the land on Main Street where Charles Oakes mansion now sits. And I'll take it a step further. I'm going to go there. It's also likely that those remains came from bodies that were snatched from the Ohio Grove Cemetery. Oh my God. I cannot right now. The oldest cemetery in the area. 00:38:32 So there you have it, is that tight enough for you? Oh my God. You know, honestly, that explains so much about the impressions that we were getting at the property that didn't seem to check out with the family. Exactly, exactly. Like I was feeling heavy legged and in, from like, I couldn't walk, well, he probably saw sick patients on that property. Right. Right. And I was feeling that hush hush, that duality of the public/private persona. Absolutely. Totally checks out because he's like a good doctor, but yeah. He's like enabling people to steal bodies from the grave so he can like practice and, and dissect them. Exactly. And me being drawn to the basement windows, I was being drawn to what was underground and what he probably did underground or left underground. So Jennifer, who do you think we were meant to give a voice to? Jill, I think that we were meant to give voice to the bodies whose remains are buried on the property on Main Street in Sycamore. Oh my gosh. But also to the souls whose graves are empty at Ohio Grove that we don't even realize are empty. Oh my God. How many more, how many more of those bodies were stolen? 00:40:06 So, definitely, we have to go back to Ohio Grove Cemetery. Oh my gosh. We do. And leave flowers at Mrs. Kenyon's grave because it was her and her ordeal that prompted us to look at this story and ultimately gave voice to those people who may be missing. But also, Jill, when we go back, I want to go to St. Charles. There are so many buildings there that are still standing. Absolutely. Absolutely. So if you also would like to visit some of these places in St. Charles and Sycamore, check out our interactive map on our website commonmystics.net and I will be leaving pins on all of these historic locations that are most definitely haunted. Where else can people find us Jill? Well, we can be found on Facebook. You can follow us. You can subscribe to Common Mystics on Spotify, Google pod, Stitcher, and Apple Podcasts, where you can leave us a positive review and we'll read it on the air like K Pool. K Pool wrote, “Look forward to each episode. These sisters are so entertaining and bounce off each other so well. Their adventures and what they unravel is riveting and entertaining. This is a must subscribe!” Thank you, K Pool! So nice. Thank you so much. Thanks to all of our listeners who are still listening. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you. And good night.

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